Nord User Forum

[Execbat]

Hi,

Usually I don't use velocity settings a lot on my NL4 and when I did, I didn't pay much attention to the details. However now I noticed some odd behaviour, that I did not find documented in the manual or somewhere online. Some of this might be intentional to a degree, however it's a bit unclear and unfortunate.

1. You cannot really velocity morph the output level. Output level ist listed as morph destination. In the manual it states, that vel=0 is base setting, vel=127 morphed value. That does not work with output level. If you set output level value to 5 and velocity morph to output level value 10, you will reach somewhere value 7 with vel=127 and about 3 with vel=0. Or set base value to 0 and morph to 10, you will not hear anything at any velocity. Note that with wheel morphs it works as expected, as with any other parameters.
I suspect, that when morphing the output level with velocity the base value gets multiplied by some value based on the difference between base and morph value, say, 0.5 for vel=0 and about 1.5 for velocity=127. Multiplication instead of addition/subtraction.
The "amp vel" shift+button function in the filter section behaves in that exact way, and that is good! But it's not how the morph should function.

2. If I activate the mentioned "amp vel" button while having the moog filter active, the velocity changes not only the output level (or the imaginary amp level) but unfortunately also the filter drive! I found that nowhere montioned. It's subtle but noticeable, create a patch with two osc and slight detune, where the filter drive makes the beating a bit more metallic. The same happens if you activate "amp vel". At vel=127 it's about 1.4 filter drive level. Now the amp is usually after the filter, so I am not sure why this was done. But it might be intentional, to add something to the sound with high velocity. But, let's be honest, that's what velocity morph is for, I can always add filter drive as morph destination.

3. Now the unfortunate part: When I set velocity morph to output level in a patch with the moog filter, the velocity morph also changes the filter drive! Same as the amp vel button. The thing is here, that the sonic result between output level value 7, output level morph value 10 at vel=127 is different that output level vaule 10. Try it out: output level value 10 and filter drive 1.4 sounds the same as output value 7, morph to output level 10 and filter drive 0. That is very annoying sometimes because you cannot use the velocity, the keyboard playing to just make a patch louder and softer without changing it's sound and without adding some filter drive, which can produce unwanted artifacts like the pronounced crispy beating noise. I am perfectly fine with any way a filter might be modeled or anything, but it is not something that should be imposed when routing velocity to amp volume!


That being said, I love my NL and it is a very useful, and first and foremost very playable and flexible synth, with the imp morph buttons, and layering and everything, but I wanted to know if someone knows anything about this, maybe this has already been discovered somewhere, where I did not find it? Or is there something else to it, that I have not discovered? I suspect that the the amp vel button setting is intentional as well as the filter drive there, but when using the output level vel morph they used the same algorithm, which is most unfortunate.

Best regards!

[Muied Lumens]

How are you measuring these velocity values? I haven't found a way to show velocity. Or maybe I misunderstood you...

I understand why you would not hear anything at value 0 even if you have morph activated for Output Level - that makes sense to me. They have made it such that when you turn down a slot it will not sound, no matter the morph settings. This is probably considered "predicable" behaviour. Maybe this affects the other erroneous results you get, I don't have my NL4 to check.

I do know that you can distort the output at certain settings, so what you get is clipping of the output stage, it has nothing to do with the drive in the filter or FX section. Turning down Out Level helps eliminate this.

If you are sure it's the filter distorting, maybe this could be something they have programmed in to model the original Moog filter behaviour? Intentional as you say. I don't know at all, it's just a guess. Distortion can happen in several parts of a circuit, as you probably know - pre or post the filter electronics, even inside in some cases.

Sorry I can't be of much more help.

[Execbat]

Thank you for your comment.

I see the velocity in my DAW where the NL is connected via midi.
The example with Output level value=0 and Morphed Output level value=10 was just to illustrate how velocity morphs work on "Output level" differently compared to all other parameters that can be morphed. (Not additive/subtractive)
Clipping is not the problem with the "amp vel / output level vel morph -> filter drive" issue, as far as turning down master or part output level doesn't change anything soundwise.
I suspect that a small amout of m-filter drive was intentionally programmed into the amp velocity function - to add more "color" or something at higher velocity.

[Muied Lumens]

Yes you are right.

From the Nord Lead 4 Manual (page 31):

"The two vintage filters are not just an emulation of their characters,
we have modeled the resonance, the internal distortion and the
envelope characteristics of the original units as well."

[Execbat]

I have seen that in the manual. That's all good, and part of the moog-emulation. The mentioned character of the resonance etc and the env shape, is something that cannot be adjusted otherwise on the NL, so it is good that this is emulated. But it doesn't say a word about velocity affecting anything. The filter drive knob on the NL is what is used to emulate higher osc mixer levels. The amp however is after the filter in a Moog. The imposed amp velocity to filter drive thing however is not good and not an emulation, and it could be added by programming a morph anyway if someone wanted that.