Nord's classical Virtual Analog Synth Nord LEAD 1/2/2x/3/4/A1 and Nord Rack versions

Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby vladmalik » 14 Jun 2016, 04:13

I am having a tough time matching the LFO speed to a BPM. I understand that you can bind the LFO rate to the Master Clock, but I don't usually want to do that, because I use LFOs a lot and each preset is unique. And sometimes the sound is altered even though the rate sounds about the same.

So LFO knob goes from 0 to 10. In the user manual it says this represents 0.03 to 523 Hz. If I knew the Hz, I could convert to BPM, but it seems to use a non-linear scale. So that 2 is not double the speed of 1. When I try to start with 10 = 523, I get a wrong BPM. What am I missing?

All other methods I used are not precise enough. If the BPM is off by 0.1, you can hear it a few bars later. I'm trying to sync my drum machine precisely to the LFO on my Nord Lead. The bpm on the drum machine only goes to 1 decimal place so maybe this is not possible.

Any ideas? Thanks. Vlad
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Matching LFO temp to BPM


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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby pablomastodon » 14 Jun 2016, 04:33

Hi Vlad,

First off, which Nord Lead do you have? The original? The NL4 or NLA1? I'm guessing the latter because you say that LFO can be synced to Master Clock, which is only possible on NL4/NLA1.

Secondly, "each preset is unique." Yes, they are, and LFO Sync is a parameter which is stored on a per program basis. So you can design each preset with its own custom setting, synced or not, at any rate or division you like.

Lastly, the Nord does not transmit clock. Your drum machine does (unless it's a really stupid drum machine). Go ahead and sync LFO and feed clock to Nord from drum machine via midi and sync the Nord to the drum machine's BPM instead of trying to "guesstimate" it from the Nord thide of sings.

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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby Mr_-G- » 14 Jun 2016, 19:20

Also you do not have a linear, continuous scale to tweak, but a look up table.
That is one of the prices to pay when encoding continuous variables to be controlled by a fixed number of discrete states. Virtual analog is exactly that: virtual.

Not exactly what you are asking, but this thread on tremolo frequencies is loosely related and it might be useful to understand what is going on:
nord-stage-forum-f3/info-rate-tempo-conversion-t9150.html#p59856
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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby vladmalik » 14 Jun 2016, 22:32

Thanks for you replies.

Yes, it's the NL4.

Yes, the LFO sync is stored by program, but the value is relative to the Master Clock. However, each program of mine is based on a specific absolute rate. So I'd end up having to remember what the clock was set to for each program and constantly fiddle with it. In synced mode, the LFO speed is not granular enough - the jumps in rate are to big.

Mr_-G,
I'm just surprised they wouldn't map the Hz range proportionally to the 1-10 scale. I just wanted to confirm that it is not, in fact, linear, which would explain why to double the rate of 1, I have to set it to 3. I'll have to create my own table I think but I'm thinking it won't be precise enough. When I set my drum machine to 91.8 it's a bit fast. When I set it to 91.7, it's a bit low. I can't calculate a value that I can tweak both devices to so that both result in a non-rounded BPM down to 1 decimal place.
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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby pablomastodon » 15 Jun 2016, 00:56

okay, so you have specific programs for specific songs, each with their own intended clock rate...does your drum machine not also have specific programs for specific songs with specific rates? or? it seems that any ordinary person who wants to lock to a clock would actually use the clock lock feature instead of trying to juggle two different machines which are not synced and manually sync them. send midi clock to the Nord via midi and they're locked and you can control tempo of both from one device, the drum machine... am I missing something here? (wouldn't be the first time)

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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby vladmalik » 17 Jun 2016, 04:51

Perhaps my workflow is unique. A typical program in NL4 would have a rhythm to it (an LFO or arp) and every program is different with a specific intended tempo - they can't all by synced to the same clock, because they have to remain independent - otherwise I have to remember and change the master clock whenever I change programs. I usually start on the NL4 and then think about layering additional drums over that. So if anything I'd love to send FROM NL4's LFO/ARP of each unique program TO the drum machine. In my case, NL is the master. I can of course send clock from NL to the drum machine, but that sends the master clock, which I don't use.

Thanks but I guess I'm stuck doing it manually. It would be nice to have VST BPM detector that would detect NL's LFO rate and send that to the drum machine's clock. Can't find even a reliable BPM detector yet.
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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby vladmalik » 17 Jun 2016, 04:54

I wish each program had its own temp on the NL and LFOs could sync to it (or if LFO rate was re[resented in BPM). Since the LFO and ARP share the same knob on the NL4, it makes sense to me that the ARP (a melody) would have a BPM setting, not a frequency in Hz.
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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby Rcmusic » 17 Jun 2016, 17:54

hello

Sorry, i read quickly this thread...but maybe this would help:

http://bradthemad.org/guitar/tempo_calculator.php
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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby pablomastodon » 17 Jun 2016, 18:12

If you have LFO or ARP set to sync to Nord's internal clock, then you cannot have independent tempos stored from program to program. All you have to do to get tempos/rates stored on a per-program basis is to remove the sync setting and it's Mission Accomplished (to relive another bad memory in US political history). Then you can attempt to manually sync the drum machine tempo to what is happening on the Nord.

Still seems like syncing the Nord to the drum machine's clock would be the way to go for effortless and accurate syncing instead of trying to do it the hard way resulting in imperfect and inconsistent results. Perhaps you might consider altering your workflow...? It would also seem that detecting BPM from something like an LFO could be really tricky...
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Re: Matching LFO temp to BPM

Postby maurizio » 20 Jun 2016, 12:05

pablomastodon wrote:If you have LFO or ARP set to sync to Nord's internal clock, then you cannot have independent tempos stored from program to program. All you have to do to get tempos/rates stored on a per-program basis is to remove the sync setting and it's Mission Accomplished (to relive another bad memory in US political history). Then you can attempt to manually sync the drum machine tempo to what is happening on the Nord.


Pablo,

my understanding is the original poster do not have a drum machine or other external sources of midi time clock.
Yes, you can add an artificial one (there are pedals that independent MTC sources, or a iPad or something else, but it is a piece of gear more :).

Actually the NLs are rich enough to build autonomous complex rhythm structures; use the four slots, with different settings for arpeggiators, delays and LFO, all synchronised to the master clock; you may
not need a drum machine or external sequencer/DAW for some kind of work; in this case, it make a lot of sense to the master clock set stored in the performance (my understanding is that it is not, i hope
i am not wrong :). This connect also to my thread on MTC; in cases in which the NL is the rhythm master, you may also want to control external equipment from the NL. Anyway, as i said in the other thread
i posted a motivated feature request on the Nord feedback page :->.

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