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SpaceStation

Postby ogunter » 11 Feb 2017, 14:19

Hello. After reading so much about the SpaceStation, and having used mostly other amp setups, I bought one of the units to go with
my Electro 4. I have used it at many gigs and experimented with it in every way possible. I cannot get a consistently good sound on
the acoustic piano samples on the Electro. In fact, sometimes it sounds terrible, even when switching back to a piano sample, that had sounded ok, from, for example, an
organ sample. I have tried using the EQ knobs, and then saving the setups, but again, just not having good luck. So my questions....any SpaceStation owners have any tips, and
do you think my piano sounds might improve by adding the Behringer sub-woofer or something similar? Thank you.
p.s. I know a lot has been written about amplification, so I apologize if this question is redundant.
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby OrpheusNY » 11 Feb 2017, 20:58

Acoustic piano samples are notoriously hard to amplify to satisfaction.

SS is undoubtedly much better at organs and EPs than APs.

One solution I've seen mentioned here by alquinn is to put the SS face down and pair it with a better quality powered monitor on top, essentially replacing the SS's front speaker with a more accurate (and more expensive) front speaker.

Al uses an RCF TT-08+SS and says it sounds fantastic on APs, EPs and organ. Of course, the TT-08As run about 2K per unit I believe.

I wonder about doing the same hack with a cheaper alternative, like an EV ZXA1, QSC K8 or Yamaha DXR10. Has anybody tried that? Would it be worth it in terms of the improvement on APs vs the SS by itself?

I agree the SS sounds boxy on AP sounds, not sure if that can be overcome without a hack. A subwoofer would add more low end, but wouldn't improve the clarity/precision of the sound, which I think is more the issue.

Here's a recent thread where Al discusses his hack:

general-nord-forum-f29/running-stereo-with-different-sized-pa-speakers-t12403-10.html
Last edited by OrpheusNY on 11 Feb 2017, 20:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: SpaceStation

Postby cphollis » 11 Feb 2017, 22:33

It took me a while to dial my APs in, but it was worth it.

First, amp placement. The farther from your ears, the better it will sound as the effect needs space to bloom. Up close, it can be pretty harsh. Many of us use an amp stand that allows us to place the amp at a 45 degree angle, laid horizontally, with the side-firing speaker facing downwards. Point it at your head, it should be much better. And, thanks to the effect, everyone will hear you just fine.

Second, piano voice construction. There's not a lot of stereo content in most of the Nord piano samples (the Royal Grand 3D is a notable exception), so it helps to add a bit. Sometimes it's a bit of chorus on the AP voice, sometimes I layer a light bit of DX7 sample with chorus, etc. Just a little bit helps.

Finally, light compression and EQ-ing out some muddy mids helped me.

I'm not saying that doing all of this will make for ultimate AP amplification bliss, but helped me greatly get to an acceptable outcome. The AP sounds are now in the same league as my QSCs et. al. All due respect to Al Quinn and his inventive solution (which I have tried and found useful), but if I'm going to bring two pieces of amplification, why not a pair of my self-powered units?

Take some time to try some of these thoughts, and see what you think.

Best of luck.
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby ogunter » 11 Feb 2017, 23:17

I will definitely try your suggestions. I have had some problems dealing with the EQ miss and frequency. They seem to be the 'knobs' that
create some of the issues I have with the AP sounds. I like the idea of the amp stand. I have tried lying the SS down on a milk crate and aiming side speaker down, but then the
sound just seems to get lost. I will try the Royal Grand d again as well. And I will try light compression. I am still getting used to how sensitive some of the effects are. Thank you
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby ogunter » 11 Feb 2017, 23:23

Also, I appreciate the info about the hacks. It makes me think back to when I played through a Barbetta keyboard amp. The owner of the company had told me to get two of his amps
and it would be perfect. I think he was right, but I couldn't afford and didn't want to carry two but now kind of wish I had just done it!
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby cphollis » 13 Feb 2017, 05:51

Spent some more time with the Royal Grand 3D sample this afternoon, gigged with it this evening. A *huge* improvement in AP pleasure, and I think I know why that is.

If you remember, the SSv3 sends X+Y (left and right) stereo signals out the front, and X-Y (difference signals) through its side-firing speaker. Well, most of the Nord pianos don't have a lot of X-Y content, which is why they sound fuller with more stereo content added, e.g. chorus, etc.

The Royal Grand 3D sample seems to have a *lot* of stereo content, and thus fully engages the side-speaker effect. The improvement was pronounced, so much so that the other musos were commenting. I think it's going to be my new go-to AP voice when using the SSv3.

Give it a try, see what you think.
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby ogunter » 13 Feb 2017, 16:53

Hi, again, thanks for suggestions. Just downloaded, installed and tried Royal Grand, definitely seems 'better.'
I'm still struggling with using the width know on the SS, and also the Freq and Gain knobs on the EQ effect.
'But will keep at it, and I guess the good news is that listeners, both audience and other band members, seem to think it
sounds good. Go figure.
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby OrpheusNY » 13 Feb 2017, 17:05

Chuck, do you leave the mid and high contour knobs on the SS in a neutral position and do all your EQing on the Nord?
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby cphollis » 14 Feb 2017, 00:24

OrpheusNY wrote:Chuck, do you leave the mid and high contour knobs on the SS in a neutral position and do all your EQing on the Nord?


Yes. The SSv3 EQ controls are rather ham-fisted in my opinion. I can get much better shaping with the parametric EQ on the Nord boards.
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Re: SpaceStation

Postby cphollis » 14 Feb 2017, 00:28

ogunter wrote:Hi, again, thanks for suggestions. Just downloaded, installed and tried Royal Grand, definitely seems 'better.'
I'm still struggling with using the width know on the SS, and also the Freq and Gain knobs on the EQ effect.
'But will keep at it, and I guess the good news is that listeners, both audience and other band members, seem to think it
sounds good. Go figure.


Keep at it. Start with all knobs at 12 o'clock. Ideal width will be a function of the room you play in. Smaller spaces, less width, larger spaces maybe more. Don't overdo it. I leave the EQ flat on the amp and do all my adjusting on the Nord, as it's got that sweepable mid which is where all the action happens. Gain staging: I use a small mixer to present it plenty of hot signal.

Once I switched to the 3D sample, it's now all coming together quite well for me.
I think I have gear issues ....

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