We are using cookies to give you the best experience on our site. Cookies are files stored in your browser and are used by most websites to help personalise your web experience. If you "ACCEPT" setting, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Accept
Everything about the Nord Electro 2, Electro 3, Electro 3HP, and Electro 4D, 4HP and 4 SW 73.

Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby jethrocrabtree » 06 Jan 2017, 08:40

I've bought a nice new Electro 5D (SW). I'd originally bought an Electro 3, but sold it (probably prematurely, since I'm not sure I'm using any of the 5's new features). The organ is still fantastic (though noticeably different from the also fantastic 3's organ). But, despite a lot of time and effort, the acoustic piano sounds are still not quite where I'd like them to be. Perhaps some of the folks on the forum can help.

After a LOT of experimenting with amplification, EQ'ing and every other possible variable I could think of, the piano sounds are getting very close to acceptable. In fact, audience people always tell me the Nord sounds great. And, experimenting at home, when I used MIDI to play the sounds through my trusty Roland FP-4 (fully weighted), they were pretty much fine (most of my testing at home is through headphones, to eliminate the amp as a source of problems -- and now my improved amplification mostly resembles what I hear through the headphones).

The biggest problem that I've narrowed it down to is the harsh electronic sound when hitting notes very hard. It just doesn't sound like a piano when this happens.

If I choose the lowest "KBD Touch" setting and resist playing more than 75% of my force it sounds potentially fine. Higher settings are just harsher more easily (and this is on literally ALL of the Nord Piano Library samples even with extensive tweaking).

If I use a weighted keyboard, it's much better.

And if I just use a user sample of a piano, in the "Sample Synth" section, and turn the "Filter Vel" on, and fiddle a bit with Attack/Decay, the problem doesn't happen either.

I'm not sure why this happens, but, for me, this has always been a problem with Nords I've tried (all Semi-Weighted). After a certain level of force, the sound is unnaturally harsh. If there were a way to limit that highest velocity artificial sound (maybe there is?), it would make a world of difference to me.

Since Nord makes such bold claims about the quality of their acoustic piano samples, it's bizarre to me (yes, I know I seem like a lone oddball in a forum of starry-eyed Nord fans), and I feel like their acoustic pianos should really be a little better (especially considering the excellence of the Nord organs, and the seemingly more usable acoustic pianos on so many cheaper company's digital pianos). But maybe there's something more I can do? I'd feel at least a little better if there was anyone out there who also notices this....

Don't worry, Nord lovers, I plan on keeping it, if only for the organ. But if I could get the ambitiously named piano samples to be even nearly as good as an old semi-weighted Kurzweil, I'd be even more delighted.
User avatar
jethrocrabtree
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 04 Jan 2017, 21:25
Country: Canada
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5

Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?


Sponsor
 

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby Christobru » 06 Jan 2017, 13:32

Hi jetrocrabtree
It seems tou have tried all kind of solutions to solve your problem, except, may be the gain control ?
Or change with an HP keybed ? Don't sure it helps, but try it if not already made.
Some pianos are soft ( velvet for exemple) and it's difficult to have a harsh sound with them i think
As for me I don't notice the same problem, and i use sevral "hard " piano's sample like the silver one,
Anyway, i don't like the SW keybed i have ( Electro 4 SW 3) and I intend to change with a E5 HP
I m a nord lover but not blind about their defects...
Christobru
 
Posts: 5
Joined: 16 Jun 2014, 23:15
Country: France
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 4

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby Lee Batchelor » 06 Jan 2017, 16:47

Hi Jethro - fellow Canuck here :).

It would help if we knew what sound gear you are playing your 5D through. Certain horn speakers have a very bad "beaming" property that can account for harsh sounds. I use two Bose L1 Compacts with a sub I designed. (I've been designing and building speakers as a hobby for 40 years.) I get excellent piano sounds. Fill us in.

- Lee
Last edited by Lee Batchelor on 06 Jan 2017, 16:47, edited 1 time in total.
Lee Batchelor
 
Posts: 156
Joined: 09 Oct 2016, 16:54
Country: Canada
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby harmonizer » 06 Jan 2017, 16:51

Which of the Nord-provided acoustic piano sounds have you tried on your Electro 5D?
Which of them sounded better or worse to your ears?
Are you running in mono (one amp/speaker), or in stereo?
harmonizer
 
Posts: 130
Joined: 25 Dec 2012, 17:10
Location: NJ, USA
Country: United States of America
Has thanked: 10 times
Been thanked: 33 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 3

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby sherlocklockboom » 06 Jan 2017, 18:26

I'd also like to hear what your final settings ended up being, and on which piano samples, to reach your "very close to acceptable" level.
sherlocklockboom
 
Posts: 3
Joined: 03 Jan 2017, 04:08
Country: United States of America
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby jethrocrabtree » 07 Jan 2017, 03:47

Hi! Thanks for the responses. The problem is present whether the sounds are coming through an amp or through headphones. I'll focus on the results through headphones, to avoid going down the rabbit-hole of amp options. Trust me, seriously I've tried all options (mono/stereo, EQ, and ALL Piano Library sounds)... it seems to be the way the Nords are designed -- to have a harsh bright electronically-enhanced sound when the keyboard is played *extremely* hard. Whack some keys, and I'm sure you'll see what I mean -- it no longer sounds like a piano. (The Piano Library sounds that work best for me are the Concert Grand Close, the "Grand Lady D" and the new Royal Grande.)

Like I said, when played through a fully-weighted keyboard, this isn't really too bad. So, I'm pretty sure it's an intentional part of the semi-weighted design -- I suspect many people play more gently than I do (and perhaps the Nord engineers do, as well). Smack some keys HARD and you'll hear it, I'm sure.
User avatar
jethrocrabtree
 
Posts: 2
Joined: 04 Jan 2017, 21:25
Country: Canada
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby jackdwosh » 07 Jan 2017, 05:57

Lee Batchelor wrote:Hi Jethro - fellow Canuck here :).

It would help if we knew what sound gear you are playing your 5D through. Certain horn speakers have a very bad "beaming" property that can account for harsh sounds. I use two Bose L1 Compacts with a sub I designed. (I've been designing and building speakers as a hobby for 40 years.) I get excellent piano sounds. Fill us in.

- Lee


I thought of using two Bose L1 Compacts for speakers for my NP3 and then was told by a sales technician that because the Bose was designed to throw sound at a very wide dispersion, there could be phase cancellation issues, muddying the sound. I assume you plug the L output to one Bose and the R output to the other Bose. Have you experienced any phase cancellation issues with this setup for Piano sounds??
jackdwosh
 
Posts: 18
Joined: 09 Jul 2016, 14:23
Country: United States of America
Has thanked: 8 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby Mr_-G- » 07 Jan 2017, 11:35

Can you please make a recording and post it here.
User avatar
Mr_-G-
Moderator
 
Posts: 2809
Joined: 18 Aug 2012, 16:48
Has thanked: 770 times
Been thanked: 746 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage 2

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby Lee Batchelor » 07 Jan 2017, 15:57

Hi Jackdwosh,

I connect my 5D to a SoundCraft mixer (Left and Right), and then to each Bose. So, I'm running full stereo. I disagree with the sales tech's opinion. Phase issues are 10 times worse with directional horns than with wide dispersion cone speakers! I used to run horn speakers and found I needed to "toe" them inward to avoid phase cancelation in certain halls. Then, you'd end up with dead spots in the outer areas of the hall.

Where I think he is correct is, any speaker can sound like crap in certain halls, regardless of what you do or use :). The other issue is, 99 percent of the rooms we play in are rectangular, that is, three sets of parallel walls. These are the worst places for proper sound creation. I guarantee you, every decent theatre you ever went to never had two surfaces that were parallel. My piano sounds have never been clearer since I dumped the horn speakers and went to Bose. But we digress :). Mr. G is correct - please post a recording. Excellent thoughts, Jackdwosh!
Last edited by Lee Batchelor on 07 Jan 2017, 15:58, edited 1 time in total.
Lee Batchelor
 
Posts: 156
Joined: 09 Oct 2016, 16:54
Country: Canada
Has thanked: 43 times
Been thanked: 16 times

Re: Improving Electro 5D SW73 acoustic piano sounds?

Postby tuomatz » 09 Jan 2017, 19:08

I'm also interested in how to make the acoustic sound better and was wondering if someone could give a little more information on how exactly you use the EQ? I still haven't quite figured it out. Also what difference does the mid's frequency knob make? Thanks!
tuomatz
 
Posts: 1
Joined: 04 Oct 2016, 21:00
Country: Finland
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 0 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Electro 5

Next

Return to Nord Electro Forum



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests