Nord User Forum

[criss]

Hi guys,

I own an Electro 5D SW and cannot decide which two XL grand pianos to keep between:
1. Royal Grand 3D vs Italian Grand - for piano solo working (various styles, more Cafe Music);
2. Bright Grand vs Silver Grand - for playing rock with my band.

I love all four (they are very different) but can't have more than two XL's. Momentary my preferred is the Bright Grand XL (I love bright pianos and it has a strong character), so I think I found the first XL winner. I read all the old posts on this forum but cannot found a comparison, for example, between the Royal and Italian grands. Clavia still sells all their red keys with the Italian grand by default but some people said the Royal 3D is an improvement.
So... the second one is tough choice:
1. Bright Grand XL and all three Lrg... or
2. Bright Grand XL, Royal Grand 3D XL and Silver Grand Lrg... or
3. Bright Grand XL, Italian Grand XL and Silver Grand Lrg.

I would be happy to hear your thoughts based on your tests and experiences, please.
Thank you,
cristian

[Rusty Mike]

I would suggest that the first thing you consider is using the XL piano for the one you play primarily for your solo and more intimate work. The primary difference between M, L and XL is how extensively the String Resonance is mapped across the keys. The other key difference between L and XL is how the samples themselves are mapped across the keyboard; XL uses more samples. These two differences are largely lost in the context of a rock band, particularly the string resonance.

Your solo and cafe sound is much more exposed than in a rock band, so you should consider loading the Italian or Royal in XL, then using L or even M for the rest of them.

Doing that, you can then experiment with the different piano samples in each playing context and decide which works best for you.

I personally prefer the Silver over the Bright, as it has a great dynamic range, can cut through when you need it, and has a richer lower end. I'm also not a fan of the Italian. I tend to use the Grand Lady D for a lot of my stuff that needs a softer sound, but I have to admit I have not played enough with the Royal Grand to see if it works for me. I heard Nord was going to put out a "conventional" recording of the same piano (Yamaha S6), but that has not happened yet.

You should also check out the uprights. The Black Upright works great for rock and blues, and the Upright Grand is a rather cutting sound. I'm a big fan of the Queen Upright for jazz - it just seems to fit.

These are my preferences, but that doesn't mean it's for everyone. The great thing about the Nord library is that there doesn't have to be a "best", just a "best for me."

[harmonizer]

For me, the Royal Grand is the only acoustic piano sound from Nord which sounds totally right in mono. If you use a stereo amplification system for your piano solo work, this might not matter to you. I have not tried a stereo amp setup, so I cannot offer a useful opinion on which sounds best in stereo.

[Lee Batchelor]

So much also depends on what speakers are being used. The cross-over frequency can have a HUGE effect on sound too. For piano sounds, I like a cross over between 800 Hz and 1K Hz.

[benny ray]

For me I like the Royal Grand for ballads and some rock tunes. The Silver Grand is my overall fav for rock tunes. Not a fan of the Bright Grand only because the upper register is too thin for my taste. I like the Italian Grand but use it very little. I have those 3 XL pianos in my library. Different strokes for different folks. Amplification is a huge factor in getting the Nord pianos to sound really good.

[Gambold]

Rusty Mike's posts on this topic, which pops up every few months in various fora, are always interesting and on the mark. His point about not needing XL samples in a rock environment is a very good one and can help your decision making process right out of the box.

The consensus best grands continue to be the Bright, Royal, Italian, and Lady D. The Bosie flew high for awhile but isn't getting a lot of press here lately. The Velvet was a disappointment and the Silver doesn't get a lot of cheers either - actually the two votes in this discussion are something of a surprise to me. Maybe the Silver's stock is rising. There are some old-timers who will always vote for the earlier samples like the Studio Grands but none of those come in XL...of course, neither does the Lady D...

I appreciate Rusty Mike's comments on the uprights and I think he knows them as well or better than most of us - but I find that even though I have a couple loaded I never use them. I would feel guilty dumping them all because then I have a whole section on my Nord that's empty! Gotta have SOMETHING there.

I play in a fairly loud rock combo and I use the Bright almost exclusively, since it cuts the best. Or at least it seems to. With an E4 I can only have one XL and right now it's the Bright, although I could certainly downgrade that to an L for more space. I have the Lady D loaded on for quieter playing on my own, and because it's a Steinway and I get tired of YAMAHA IS EVERYTHING AND EVERYWHERE.

I have the Black and Saloon (detuned) uprights on but like I said...I never play them. Maybe I should some more. I kind of wish that instead of a separate tack piano and detuned one, there was one with both...the tack piano sounds a little too harpsichordy on its own. I remember really liking the Queen - I think I'll put that on and play with it tonight!

[criss]

Thank you very much for your responses! Silver was my favorite too, because it's the brightest one but, after I played many times on the Bright, I find the Silver a little too "clean". Anyway, both are in my Top#2 now. When I bought my Electro I found the LadyD too soft but I will test it again.

I managed to have three grands in XL (by deleting the Grand Upright - keeping only the Black which remembers my old upright). So I can use now the Royal XL for solo and more intimate work but I don't find it perfect so I wondering if the LadyD or Italian can work for me better. Reading your opinions, LadyD seems to be the winner for the solo works.

[Rusty Mike]

It's really going to depend on what you are looking for. Certain players really like the Italian for solo work, others like the Royal, etc.

What is the personality you are looking for? For me, I like the sounds of the jazz piano recordings in the 50's and 60's. The characteristics were a solid fundamental tone with a warmth all the way through the range. The overtone structure was not overbearing, probably because the recording technology of the time was limited in terms of the upper frequencies it could capture. But I like that sound. To me, the Italian Grand and the Imperial have way too much overtone emphasis, so you hear a lot of the harmonics, but the fundamental gets lost.

The other thing is how you see your role as a pianist in your ensemble. In big band (which is most of what I play), the pianist is part of the support structure. Your role is to blend in, not to stand out. As a result, I don't want a sound that will cut through, but rather compliment the horns. My fusion band is a quintet, which I view as a "3 and 2" arrangement; the guitarist and sax are the lead instruments, while drums, bass and piano are the foundation. Again, I'm there to create a solid foundation, and stand out only when the moment calls.

For small combo work, I want an intimate and warm sound. I may be a featured instrument there, but I'm looking for something that has a great personality when exposed.

My point is that what is essential to me as a pianist may not be at all important to you. Think about the voice you want to create among the rest of the group, as well as the character that you want the audience to hear. That should drive your decision about the right mix of pianos to keep in your instrument.

Gambold, I appreciate the compliment, but I am far from an expert on the uprights. I have spent time with each of them (except the saloon piano), and do appreciate everything they offer. The uprights tend to have a weaker voice in the lower register than the grands, obviously due to the construction of an upright piano. This is part of what makes them ideal for rock, as they are not muddy. The Grand Upright is a great example of this - it's cutting and bold, but won't step on the bass player. The other factor of the uprights that fascinate me is their individual character comes shining through; you can hear the soundboard and hammers in every one of them. To me, the detail is just stunning.

I think there is also a stigma of sorts regarding playing an upright sound vs. a grand piano, that we somehow feel like it's embarrassing to NOT play a "grand" piano. In reality, you are the only one who knows which sound is which. Band members and the audience will hear a piano, and I'll bet nobody will tell you "hey why are you playing a spinet sound on that song?" In reality, a lot of famous recordings across all the genres were recorded with upright pianos, and not grands.

Two quick application points, which I've written about in other threads on this forum: I do not run single channel mono. I take both left and right outputs, and plug them into the two channels on my QSC K8. So yes, the sound is coming from a single speaker, and is therefore mono, but I get the outputs from both L and R channels on the Nord. To date, this has given me the best sound in a mono application. And I strongly prefer the K8 over the K10 - it just sounds better to my ears. I will run stereo K8's when the situation requires as well.

Point 2: The EQ is your friend! Don't have a "set it and forget it" approach. Each room is different, each night is different, your ears change, other factors influence the sound. Understand how the EQ affects each piano. Dial down the mids in the 200-400 range to kill off some of the mud. Pull down in the 1-2K range if it's to bright. I always dial back the treble a bit. Understand as well that how you control the midrange will affect the bass and treble controls. I advise you dial the midrange first, then tweak the highs and lows afterward.

Apologies for the long responses.

[Rusty Mike]

I find that even though I have a couple loaded I never use them. I would feel guilty dumping them all because then I have a whole section on my Nord that's empty! Gotta have SOMETHING there.

I think a lot of us feel this way. I have pianos (grands and uprights) I don't use. At the moment, I'm currently not sacrificing anything by having them there, and I do experiment from time to time. Last night I was messing with the Royal Grand at big band rehearsal. I'm not quite there yet. Same thing with the harpsichords, clavinets and FM pianos - I don't play them but they're still loaded.

It's also true with the sample section. There are only a few samples that I actually use; the rest of it is still the factory load. Maybe someday, I've only had the Stage since October, and haven't started to scratch the surface yet.

[Lee Batchelor]

"Apologies for the long responses."

No apology needed, Mike! Very helpful info indeed. Thanks !