Nord User Forum

[Gambold]

>It's been mentioned in an earlier thread about the Leslie sim that perhaps the very cabinet Nord modeled for the 5D had a low amount of dirt, whereas, the modeling for the 4D had none.<

Interesting that they would model a new cabinet for the new Electro. That seems expensive and unnecessary, but maybe they had feedback that the E4 sim wasn't authentic enough.

Also you'd think that for instruments as expensive as these, they would beta-test with players, not employees - surely there must be a few in Stockholm who would jump at the chance to be part of that.

[Lee Batchelor]

Very true, Gambold!

[benny ray]

I wish I could get a completely clean leslie sound but hopefully an update is coming for a clean leslie ok Nord ya hear!

[anotherscott]

>It's been mentioned in an earlier thread about the Leslie sim that perhaps the very cabinet Nord modeled for the 5D had a low amount of dirt, whereas, the modeling for the 4D had none.<

Interesting that they would model a new cabinet for the new Electro. That seems expensive and unnecessary, but maybe they had feedback that the E4 sim wasn't authentic enough.

Also you'd think that for instruments as expensive as these, they would beta-test with players, not employees

The E5 sim is not new, it was developed for the C2D, and people seem to like it on the C2D. Unless maybe someone is suggesting it's grungier on the E5 than it was on the C2D?

I never played the E4 (or the C2D), but I think the E5 rotary sim is better than what was in the NS2 or the E3. I like it quite a lot. Although there are a handful of people here who complain about it, I don't know if that's representative of any general widespread dissatisfaction. I'm also curious about whether the people who complain about it have played real tonewheel Hammonds through real Leslie 122s. I have, and to my ears, this is the best sim I've heard from Nord.

[Gambold]

I think the issue has arisen because the Hammond/Leslie sound is such a large part of what the Electro is. The new Leslie sim may indeed suit some people but clearly it's not suiting others, and the question is why mess with something this important to the package - or why not offer both the old and the new?

After all, the Electro has a drove of this-or-that settings for all sorts of things, some of them fairly minor that people might rarely or never use (A-wah vs p-wah, a rainbow of reverb levels, etc). But the rotary is a huge reason people buy an Electro, so making a noticeable change from version 4 to version 5, that eliminates a previous and popular setting, is going to cause some problems.

[analogika]

I don't think I've ever heard a "clean" Leslie sound that didn't suck.

Which is to say, I have heard real Hammonds/Leslies set up to sound sterile and boring, like bad digital emulations. Maybe that's really a matter of personal taste, but it runs completely counter to how I understand the instrument - a bit like Laurens Hammond's life-long struggle to remove the key-click, and his eventual partial success resulting in the most anemic and lifeless organs built under his tenure. (He hated Leslies, too.) Or Han shooting first.

[Lee Batchelor]

I guess we've drifted way off topic here .

The whole point is, if the clean Leslie does suck to some ears, there is still absolutely NO reason to start with 5 percent dirt on the raw Leslie sound (if that's the percentage). Yes, the 5D sample is outstanding, however, traditionally ALL effects start in the Off position. Nord has jumped ship and raised the baseline dirt level to just a "wee bit On." A significant number of people have expressed their disliking to this. The number who hate it is irrelevant. That's like turning on the 5D only to find the volume default level is a little bit on. The volume is always 0 dB when the knob is all the way counter clockwise. Why not the dirt sound??? By eliminating the wee bit of default dirt level, both customer types are satisfied. Face it, Nord dropped the ball on this one. I can order an external controller on a trial basis. If there's no significant difference, I can return the external controller.

I can remember years ago, listening to the Hammond organ with a Leslie speaker being demonstrated at the Eatons department store and drooling over the sound. It was clean and clear. That sound matches the type of tunes I play today. I seldom do "raunch," but when I need to, it should be my decision, not Nord's. So give me what I paid for - "clean." Nord gave us both on the 4D. Why not on the 5D??

[benny ray]

Lee that post was exactly the way I think also I need some clean alot of the time let me decide what I need. I wish Nord would fix this problem as I know several buyers that have sold their Nord because of this problem.

[Lee Batchelor]

Thanks Benny Ray. I still love my Nord, but this issue needs a response from Nord - even it's, "Sorry, we can't change it now." Sometimes an admission of error is enough to keep customers. The biggest loss of repeat business is caused by the customer's perception that the company just didn't give a damn. Make no mistake about that.

Meanwhile, I'll give the external controller a go and report back.

[anotherscott]

there is still absolutely NO reason to start with 5 percent dirt on the raw Leslie sound (if that's the percentage). Yes, the 5D sample is outstanding, however, traditionally ALL effects start in the Off position. Nord has jumped ship and raised the baseline dirt level to just a "wee bit On."

It's possible that the "wee bit On" isn't a function of the overdrive effect itself which might actually start at zero, but rather, the modeling of the Leslie. That is, the overdrive effect and its own knob might be completely independent of the algorithm that is doing the Leslie sim, which could inherently be not entirely clean, as can be the fact with real Leslies. They could have first accurately modeled their 122 (which had some dirt), and then said, okay, let's add a separate tube overdrive emulation which people can add if they want. (I'm not saying that's the case, I'm just saying it's possible.)

Nord gave us both on the 4D. Why not on the 5D??

We don't know why they choose to give us the options that they do, but there is a fixed space for code in the designs. They came out with an update that would give the C2 the same Leslie effect as the C2D, but they warned that, because there wasn't room for all of them, you'd lose one of the original C2 effects if you did the upgrade. This was also essentially the explanation why the Nord Stage 2 did not include all the "vintage" variations that the Electro 3 did. So if they are working within some fixed code space, they make decisions about what to include and what to leave out.

I wish Nord would fix this problem as I know several buyers that have sold their Nord because of this problem.

What have they decided to use instead?

If anyone loves their NE5 except for the rotary effect, it is also possible to defeat the internal rotary effect and run the organ through an external sim. The moderately priced Electro-Harmonix Lester K seems to be getting good reviews, or you could go all the way and get a Ventilator. Arguably, this doesn't just give you back what you're looking for, but actually gives you an overall better rotary effect than what's already in the E5.

I'm curious to know whether anyone has played both the E5D and the C2D, and whether the C2D has the same issue. The E5D rotary is derived from the C2D, and I haven't seen people complaining about that one, and the C2D owners would presumably be Nord's most demanding organ customers. So I'm curious as to whether that's because organ purists are more likely to be fine with this sim, or if there is actually a difference in the implementation between the two boards.

And to get back on topic, I'm actually more bugged by the loss of clav settings. At least with the rotary, you can likely get what you want if you're willing to buy an add-on... there's no comparable easy fix to restore the greater operational authenticity to the clav.