Everything about the new Nord Drum and the Nord Beat 2 App.

ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby BadTicket » 24 May 2015, 07:44

Hello together

I use the Nord Drum 2 and the Nordbeat Sequencer on the iPad over a iConnectMIDI4+ wich works fine. But what I can't find out is how can I use the BPMs from the Nordbeat to use eg. the LFO rate on a synth? Or the delay time of Moogerfooger. I would like to be in sync with the Nordbeat but can't figure out which MIDI-setup is necessary...

Does anybody of you know how to to this? Thanks a lot and Heavenicetrip! Fe/2
Last edited by BadTicket on 24 May 2015, 07:44, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BadTicket
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 08 Apr 2015, 15:02
Country: Switzerland
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Drum 2
Your Nord Gear #2: Other Brand

ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]


Sponsor
 

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby wartaler » 25 May 2015, 05:10

Hi!

You have to enable sending MIDI clock from the Nord Beat app: go to the menu > MIDI devices > Clock sync
set it to send,

Perhaps first check if your effects and synths can actually sync to MIDI clock, the Moogerfooger can,
(I had a peek in the manual, cool device btw, switch the MIDI clock sync function of your MF on by sending a value of >63 to CC108 (edit: and CC89. You can do this with the free app Faders & XY pad by Yamaha, or any other app that can send CC messages) ..after that, the Moogerfooger Delay will (/should) sync to the tempo set in the Nord Beat app...)

Some other gear however, might not sync with regular MIDI clock signals, then these, or similar units may help:
http://www.e-rm.de/products/midiclock.php
http://www.moltenvoltage.com/products/S ... ltage.html

Cheers,
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 29 Jun 2015, 23:04, edited 1 time in total.
Nord Drum 2, Drum (1), Lead 4, Lead 2x, Stage 'Classic', Micro Modular
wartaler
Moderator
 
Posts: 737
Joined: 19 Mar 2009, 18:32
Country: Netherlands
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 231 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage Classic
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Drum 2

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby BadTicket » 25 May 2015, 20:52

Hi Albert

Thanks a lot for your help! The Sub37 is in sync, that works really fine :thumbup:
But the Moogerfooger will not follow the sync, nether the LFO and not that delay. What I've done is: I use the "Faders & XY pad by Yamaha" and set a fader to CC108 (for the LFO and another tp 89 for the delay) and then I use the faders on the highest place, so they should send numbers > 100. But nothing changed. I nether find any help in the Moggerfooger manual, I thought there must be a function to first switch on the receiving of a CC change. But I find nothing. What would be the correct thing to do send such a "change"?

THX and Heavenicetrip! Fe/2
Last edited by BadTicket on 25 May 2015, 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
BadTicket
 
Posts: 9
Joined: 08 Apr 2015, 15:02
Country: Switzerland
Has thanked: 0 time
Been thanked: 1 time
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Drum 2
Your Nord Gear #2: Other Brand

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby wartaler » 25 May 2015, 21:43

Hi,

Not sure why it doesn't work, the app sends the clock alright, that seems ok now,
perhaps check the MIDI channel you're sending the CCs on to enable external clock control on delay/LFO of your Moogerfooger, if that is set correctly, try some other CCs that should have a more direct effect on the sound of your MF, to test the setup, connections, cables..

Else, maybe ask a Moogerfooger user forum.. : )

Best,
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 26 May 2015, 23:22, edited 5 times in total.
Nord Drum 2, Drum (1), Lead 4, Lead 2x, Stage 'Classic', Micro Modular
wartaler
Moderator
 
Posts: 737
Joined: 19 Mar 2009, 18:32
Country: Netherlands
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 231 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage Classic
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Drum 2

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby jooga1972 » 07 Jul 2015, 16:30

Hey all, first post here.. after a fruitful cooperation with the Nord Drum 1, as of yesterday, I'm a happy user of the Nord Drum 2. I'm thrilled as I expected to be and thought this may be the right time to ask around whether anyone else using the Nord Beat 2 app have the same experiences as I do. In a nutshell: the bpm values set in the app, in reality, are prone to shift up a little, by a few decimals. In a little more detail: when, say, the tempo is set to 126, the app actually sends 126.1 or 126.2.. some bpms, like the good old 120 seem to be intact and remain 120 at the end, but usually there's this little, but annoying difference. I tested this with and without a MIDI interface (i.e.:when Nord Beat sends clock directly to other apps like SamplR or Loopy AND when Nord Beat sends clock via the iConnectMIDI interface to the Nord Drum) and the results are always the same. So it is not the interface causing the shift, the bug, if this is a bug at all, comes from Nord Beat. I'd like to have a steady bpm all around so that I can play my other gear in sync with the Nord Drum, SamplR, etc. Shall I forget the app and get a hardware sequencer? If so, I thought maybe the Arturia Beatstep would come handy. If you have experience / info on this bpm-shift issue and/or the Nord Drum-Beatstep integration, please share. Thanks a million!
Cheers, Gabor
User avatar
jooga1972
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 12:57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Country: Hungary
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Drum 2

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby wartaler » 07 Jul 2015, 20:23

Hi Gabor!

not sure, but I managed to replicate what you're seeing within the iPad:
(Nord Beat + Loopy), after changing the bpm value in NB from any value to 126 bpm, the Loopy app reads 126.1 bpm...
However when I then shortly stop NB, and then press start again, the BPM in Loopy reads 126,0

When I connect the NB app thru my MIDI interface to my Midibro device (small unit by Audiothingies = Midipal by Mutable instruments) the Midibro measures a slightly higher bpm value than expected. When the Loopy app is the clock source the Midibro measures a slightly lower bpm than expected. When I connect my ERM Midiclock+ device to the Midibro, it also reads some slightly lower bpm. When I connect the Midiclock+ to the Loopy app, all bpm values are exactly as expected.

[btw.: The bpm measurement of the Midibro shows some fluctuations, regardless of the clock source. This either means that all the sources, including the 'rock solid' Midiclock+ have some MIDI clock jitter. And/or the Midibro's internal reference clock isn't 100% stable. When I connect the Midiclock+ to the Loopy app, the reading is very stable, the app clearly does some smooth and slow averaging as it is also slow to adapt to abrupt intentional large changes in tempo..]

Funny stuff, ... but to come back to your question..
I think, in general, that two (even seemingly identical) devices will not run exactly at the same tempo, even when both are set on exactly the same tempo. Therefore I think it is a good idea to use one MIDI clock source for all your apps/devices, sync everything to that one clock source. As long as everything is in sync with each other, and there isn't too much fluctuation from the clock source, all should be fine. And then it doesn't really matter what the exact bpm value is, or reads, right? The different bpm readings in the 2 synced apps, I think, doesn't mean that they are actually running on different tempos, or do you hear them drifting apart?

Cheers,
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 08 Jul 2015, 00:08, edited 6 times in total.
Nord Drum 2, Drum (1), Lead 4, Lead 2x, Stage 'Classic', Micro Modular
wartaler
Moderator
 
Posts: 737
Joined: 19 Mar 2009, 18:32
Country: Netherlands
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 231 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage Classic
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Drum 2

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby jooga1972 » 07 Jul 2015, 22:53

Hey Albert,
Thanks for your detailed reply. Indeed, tempo fluctuation is kinda rooted in the nature of MIDI and "rock solid clock" may be just a myth after all. I guess I can live with this or find a workaround and use a single device as the master clock. I'm not sure though if I can get it work it right as, like I said in my first post, my synths tend to translate the incoming clock data as per their own protocol and this results in behaviours not really fitting the song structures I'm working on. The Mopho x4 is a good example; it reads external MIDI all right but it also becomes a total slave and its sequencer plays only when the Nord Beat is running. Plus it translates the notes on the drum channels into voices so it plays notes, too. So far I've been unable to get rid of this issue, maybe it's not even possible, can't tell right now. Muting the drum channels when they're not needed in the composition may be a solution, but a very awkward one. I could sync the whole lot to my DAW (Reason 8.3...guess I gotta love Swedish stuff...I also have a Teenage Engineering OP-1... and I drive a Saab :) ) but don't want to take my notebook and audio interface to gigs ...(.. reading back all this raises the possibility of me having far too many problems... :) ) I'd prefer to do this in a more straightforward manner without complex syncing-routes. The iPad is such a sleek and versatile tool/instrument, I use it exclusively to play backing tracks if that is the case, play SamplR and Loopy live, synced to another app...possibly Nord Beat. SamplR, for instance, does exactly what I need: reads the external tempo but has its own transport controls alive, no forced start/stop. And to answer your ultimate question, yes, the tiny tempo drifts are enough to move the track out of sync over time,usually in the matter of a mniute or two; Nord Beat runs at bpm 126 (let's stick to the example) which in SamplR becomes 126.1, then at some point I start the Mopho's sequencer set to bpm 126 dead on beat and pretty soon I notice that it's running a tad behind the Nord Drum. Retriggering the sequence of course helps, temporarily. Anyway, I guess I'll have to accept that this is all down to MIDI and gotta live with it. Will and can. :) I emailed Nord Beat's developer, Kymatica earlier today, asking Jonathan to consider rolling out an update which should offer bpm decimals - with that the actual tempo could be tricked into whole numbers. We'll see what he's got to say.

Thanks again, talk to you guys later. :)

Cheers, Gabor
User avatar
jooga1972
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 12:57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Country: Hungary
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Drum 2

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby wartaler » 07 Jul 2015, 23:53

Hi!

Quite some cool stuff you have there!
Just some quick replies/ideas:
jooga1972 wrote:The Mopho x4 is a good example; it reads external MIDI all right but it also becomes a total slave and its sequencer plays only when the Nord Beat is running. Plus it translates the notes on the drum channels into voices so it plays notes, too. So far I've been unable to get rid of this issue, maybe it's not even possible, can't tell right now. Muting the drum channels when they're not needed in the composition may be a solution, but a very awkward one.

The MIDI clock signal isn't transmitted on a MIDI channel. If you don't want the Mopho to play notes that are sent by the NB app, on the Mopho you should select a MIDI channel different from the channel that the NB app transmits on. This will not affect the reception of MIDI clock by the Mopho.

jooga1972 wrote: And to answer your ultimate question, yes, the tiny tempo drifts are enough to move the track out of sync over time,usually in the matter of a minute or two; Nord Beat runs at bpm 126 (let's stick to the example) which in SamplR becomes 126.1, then at some point I start the Mopho's sequencer set to bpm 126 dead on beat and pretty soon I notice that it's running a tad behind the Nord Drum. Retriggering the sequence of course helps, temporarily.

And between the two apps, do they drift from each other? If I understand correctly, in your example the Mopho is not synced thru MIDI but set on 126 bpm? I think you only need to get the above problem with the Mopho sorted, then you can use the NB app as main clock source for the apps, and the Mopho as well. In the physical MIDI world perhaps it will require a MIDI splitter or so, or maybe your Mopho also has a MIDI thru.. However I also read that more complex wiring, use of mergers etc may negatively affect clock accuracy, so we should try to keep it simple :)


Yes, keep us posted!
Cheers,
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 08 Jul 2015, 00:45, edited 4 times in total.
Nord Drum 2, Drum (1), Lead 4, Lead 2x, Stage 'Classic', Micro Modular
wartaler
Moderator
 
Posts: 737
Joined: 19 Mar 2009, 18:32
Country: Netherlands
Has thanked: 92 times
Been thanked: 231 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Stage Classic
Your Nord Gear #2: Nord Drum 2

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby jooga1972 » 08 Jul 2015, 06:47

Hi again Albert, yes, the Mopho is in standalone mode, set to 126 bpm. I will look into its MIDI options again and see what can be done. And yes again, the bpm from app to app is stable so it's the Mopho that needs a little more attention.
Thanks for all your insight and advice, all is much appreciated. :)
Cheers, g
Last edited by jooga1972 on 08 Jul 2015, 10:17, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
jooga1972
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 12:57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Country: Hungary
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Drum 2

Re: ND2/Nordbeat and other devices [MIDI]

Postby jooga1972 » 08 Jul 2015, 22:01

This just in: Jonathan from Kymatica wrote back and said that he and Loopy's developer had run a few tests right after he received my "bug report" and concluded that any Nord Beat bpm value set lower or higher than 120 produces a slight drift. So now the issue is kinda official. They used Nord Beat as master and a special app ( developed by Michael of Loopy...) as slave during the tests. Nord Beat is owned by Clavia Nord so Jonathan contacted them asking if they want him to look into this. Let's hope they say yes. For the time being I seem to have found a workaround, can't tell why I didn't try this until today it's so obvious: I set up Loopy as master and Nord Beat as slave and the clock sent by Loopy is dead tight, no shifts at all. A little twisted, but simple enough solution.
Last edited by jooga1972 on 08 Jul 2015, 22:26, edited 1 time in total.

The author jooga1972 was thanked by 2 members, including:
skintechnicianwartaler
User avatar
jooga1972
 
Posts: 59
Joined: 01 Jul 2015, 12:57
Location: Budapest, Hungary
Country: Hungary
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 26 times
Your Nord Gear #1: Nord Drum 2

Next

Return to Nord Drum Forum



Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests