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MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to OFF.

Postby Rudemint » 04 Feb 2017, 02:17

2017-02-04_011344.jpg
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Hello!

I joined up to post given that this issue is so particular to the Nord Drum 2, and I hoped that someone else might have some sense of what I can do. I'm happy to go a little more into what I'm working on, but it doesn't seem too necessary at this point. But essentially, I am looking to interface trigger pads via the ND2 (and also via a MIDI processor) to a sampler (Elektron Octatrack). I've been having issues getting these all to communicate - the technical problems have pretty much stopped the creativity at this point, so I'm determined to get things going again!

In trying to figure out what was going on, I decided to use a midi monitoring device - just so I could clarify what was coming from the Nord and adjust accordingly. It was responding. One thing that was unexpected was that the note number was different from what I'd set in the MIDI sub-menu. So this could have been affecting the commands I'd been sending.The other thing it clarified was that the ND2 does send a 'NOTE OFF' message, which I wasn't sure about. However ... when I set the Global MIDI channel to OFF, the 'TRIG' button ceased to send any information whatsoever. The MIDI channels correspond with the INPUT channels on the Nord, for ease of use on my part (1-6). You can see the output of the monitoring in the attached image. I pressed the TRIG and changed the INPUT CHANNELs 1, 2 and 3. I then changed the Global channel to 2 and did the same. When I changed it to Global ... nothing. The 'Control Change' messages are from clicking the 'Channel Select' buttons.

Is this a problem, or am I missing something here? The funny thing is, when I had managed to get things partially working, it ONLY seemed to work when the Global MIDI channel was ON! So it seems to be at the root of the problem in both instances. Any suggestions or explanations would help a lot, I'm sure. I'm new to this side of my equipment, so don't expect I'll know anything, however basic ...

Thank you for reading!
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MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to OFF.


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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby pablomastodon » 04 Feb 2017, 08:36

If you're standing at the sink holding an empty glass under the faucet, you are going to need to turn the water ON in order to get anything to drink. Midi will work the same way. If you turn it OFF...then it's off. No nothing.

Set the Global Channel to the same number as the Elektron's Receive Channel setting....

If you are passing midi data stream through a midi processor of some type, and still having problems, perhaps you should tell us brand/model of device and the settings you are using on it so that we are better able to help you.

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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby Rudemint » 04 Feb 2017, 17:59

Thank you for replying, Pablo.

What I'd understood from the manual (and from the way my other devices operate) was that the Global channel was one option for communicating with other devices IF "you want to transmit and receive notes and parameter changes on one MIDI channel". Otherwise, I'd assumed, you could still send/receive information on the 6 MIDI channels separately. The manual states quite clearly that using both Global and Individual MIDI channels "make it possible to record, and to play back the MIDI notes and parameter changes." I guess it could be that the individual channels don't output MIDI information ... but that seems odd.

So, I had thought that turning off the Global MIDI channel wasn't "turning off" MIDI, as you describe it. More like: I'm standing at the sink, and there are six separate faucets. I can turn each of them on or off independently. But then there's actually another one, the Global faucet. When I turn that one on, the output from the other six is re-routed and comes out of one of six miniature tubes in the global faucet so that when I now turn faucet '1', the equivalent pipe in the Global faucet will turn on or off.
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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby pablomastodon » 05 Feb 2017, 19:14

From your initial post referencing note numbers, it was my understanding that you were trying to run in "global mode." My demo ND2 model is no longer with me, so I'm not able to confirm this whether it will transmit on individual drum channel midi channels (I really wish they hadn't chosen to use the word "channel" for the six parts). It may be that the midi channel settings for the individual drum channels relate to receiving and not transmitting? I'll scope this on my ND3P and see how that behaves.

Also, I will confess that I was assuming that you had a lack of sophistication with regard to midi in general (a common occurrence), but now I understand differently. No doubt I went overboard in "dumbing it down"

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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby maxpiano » 05 Feb 2017, 19:29

For curiosity I read the ND2 manual and actually it is not so clear, but the 2 pieces of text below (page 30 of http://www.nordkeyboards.com/sites/default/files/files/downloads/manuals/nord-drum-2/Nord%20Drum%202%20English%20User%20Manual%20v3.0x%20Edition%20F.pdf) makes me think that maybe individual channel do not handle MIDI Notes but only Midi CC messages (?)




Recording: Individual MIDI Channels
Use the Individual MIDI Channels when you need to control parameters on more than one Nord Drum 2 channel at a time. The Global MIDI Channel can still be used for the notes if you wish to keep those on one track in the sequencer.(...)

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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby Rudemint » 05 Feb 2017, 20:58

I appreciated your replies, pablomastodon.

Using your analogy wasn't meant as an attack - I actually thought it might help to explain my own assumptions better than my attempt at a more technically accurate description.

Apologies if it appeared otherwise!
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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby Rudemint » 05 Feb 2017, 21:01

Yes, it does seem ambiguous maxpiano - I thought that, too.

Actually, if they do still send MIDI CC messages that could still be of use to me - I'll have to check that. I think I was only triggering a NOTE-ON message. I'll try altering some settings and see if anything is being sent out. My concern was that is was just my unit, for whatever reason. Or, potentially, that it was something that was working differently than it should and could be amended in an OS update (if verified).
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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby wartaler » 06 Feb 2017, 01:00

Hi,
To send MIDI data from the ND2 to another device, you can only use the general MIDI channel.
The individual MIDI channels can only be used to control the parameters of individual sounds (channels) of the ND2 with CC's, and the pitch of the drum sounds with MIDI notes.

So, the general MIDI channel can be used for communication in two directions : [other device] <-> [ND2]
individual MIDI channels can only be used to control the ND2 : [other device] -> [ND2]

Cheers,
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 06 Feb 2017, 08:59, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby Rudemint » 06 Feb 2017, 13:47

wartaler wrote:Hi,
To send MIDI data from the ND2 to another device, you can only use the general MIDI channel.
The individual MIDI channels can only be used to control the parameters of individual sounds (channels) of the ND2 with CC's, and the pitch of the drum sounds with MIDI notes.

So, the general MIDI channel can be used for communication in two directions : [other device] <-> [ND2]
individual MIDI channels can only be used to control the ND2 : [other device] -> [ND2]

Cheers,
Albert


Thank you for posting, "wartaler".

This is exactly what I was getting out of the ND2, and hoping to verify. Is this a normal configuration on synths? Is it the same on other Nord devices?
The Nord Drum 2 is my first synthesizer, which might explain why I'd assumed that the 'Global' channel was optional. I think it is optional on the Octatrack - i.e. that you can send notes either on the Global or individual MIDI channels ... or both.

At least now I can take this as a starting-point in trying to get these devices to play together nicely.
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Re: MIDI problem: No MIDI output when Global channel set to

Postby wartaler » 06 Feb 2017, 22:49

I think other multi timbral synths may have similar MIDI setups, but there is no standard,
So for each new device you'll have to read the manual, experiment a bit,
I think one of the best ways is, like you did, use a MIDI monitor to check what is going on, ask around on forums
Cheers,
Albert
Last edited by wartaler on 06 Feb 2017, 22:51, edited 1 time in total.
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