The Nord C1, C2 and C2D Organ Forum

Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby bboyjamin » 06 Apr 2013, 16:53

Mooser wrote: A good woofer, even multiple woofers, yes, but is a sub-woofer an advantage?


Note: I only have headphones right now, so this is all theory...

I'm new to this organ, but I think it can produce frequencies down to 32.692 Hz. This is why I'm interested in a subwoofer. From my research, some woofers can produce this sound, but not with a flat frequency response. So your mid-range notes will sound way louder than your bass notes.

I found this tonewheel chart that explains the frequencies generated by Hammond tonewheels: http://www.goodeveca.net/RotorOrgan/ToneWheelSpec.html

This chart lists the lowest frequency as 32.692 Hz.

To confirm, I did an experiment where I found the lowest frequency by counting down from A440.

I started with a reference tone:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gPBgWWZhcA4

Note: we can uncomplicate the experiment by using only the FUND (3rd from left or 4') drawbar. Then we don't have to think about foldback.

Using only the FUND drawbar, I find 440 Hz at the 3rd A from the left. The 2nd A is 220 Hz, and the 1st A is 110 Hz. But if you activate the Bass Pedal button and use only the SUB drawbar, you can get one octave lower, 55 Hz (I don't have pedals yet).

So the lowest A on the organ is 55 Hz, and referencing the tonewheel chart, the C below that is 32.7 Hz.

If you follow my steps, do you get the same answer?

My goal is for the whole organ to sound at apparently equal volume, although I'm questioning everything now :)

I just discovered a Motion Sound subwoofer, the SW-15. I assume this is designed for organ playing, but the manual says it is 40 Hz - 300 Hz. Maybe it would do the job?
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup


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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby Michael Wright » 06 Apr 2013, 19:06

The 3300 is designed for Hammond/Clone usage and the bottom end is great when kicking bass is not an issue. The sub out lets you deliver more power into the bottom end and get a bit lower. The overall balance of the system should be just fine I would think, since the output is variable as are the drawbars. Mixing and matching cabinets will always be a trial and error situation though.
Last edited by Michael Wright on 06 Apr 2013, 19:10, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby bboyjamin » 07 Apr 2013, 00:11

You guys explained it to me, but can you explain to my wife? Just pulled the trigger on Leslie 3300, 11-pin, and Mojo Pedals !!
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby Michael Wright » 07 Apr 2013, 02:06

bboyjamin wrote:You guys explained it to me, but can you explain to my wife? Just pulled the trigger on Leslie 3300, 11-pin, and Mojo Pedals !!

Probably not. My wife does not understand either. That's why I talk to you guys.
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby Mooser » 08 Apr 2013, 00:05

"This maybe of advantage when using bass pedals or stops for kicking bass."

If I'm reading this chart right: http://liutaiomottola.com/formulae/freqtab.htm the lowest 16' pedal note is 65.4 Hz. And the lowest manual note is a 130. Pretty low!
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby bboyjamin » 09 Apr 2013, 00:17

Areyou saying the lowest pedal note is a C2 and lowest manual note is a C3, and so from the chart, 65 and 130 Hz respectively?
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby flmc59 » 09 Apr 2013, 10:58

Acutally it is one octave down.
Lowest C pedal is ~32 hz manual ~64 hz.

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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby Mooser » 09 Apr 2013, 18:55

"Lowest C pedal is ~32 hz manual ~64 hz."

You know what gets me? Why on earth did Hammond not include 'pedal sustain' on the console models? All the spinets had it! Why not put it on the 25 pedal models, and make it much easier to play a running bass with the left foot? Every other electric-electronic organ had some kind of pedal sustain. But not the Hammond consoles.Why is that? It'd be a definite advantage, and there's always an "off" option if the player doesn't like it. Whatever the method used to produce the sustain, why couldn't it be used on the console (full size B3) models?
If this is a question that should not be asked, I apologise, but I've wondered about it since, oh, 1965 or so. I remember being very surprised when I found out none of the rockers an the console was pedal sustain. I assumed it was there.

Yes, 'pedal sustain' doesn't work when using the pedals to produce thump on LH bass but that technique hadn't even come along yet, and there's always the off switch. All the aftermarket 'string bass' or 'synth bass' attachments for a Hammond pedals had sustain.
Last edited by Mooser on 09 Apr 2013, 19:05, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby bboyjamin » 14 Apr 2013, 19:30

Wow!! This Leslie 3300 is amazing!! The first time I turned it on I got lost in the sound for a couple of hours.

It sure can scream. But it's possible to keep it low enough for home playing.

Is there some GOOD documentation out there on how to properly use the Tube Pre-amp without damage? There are lots of warning in the manual, as if they're saying "Use it, but don't say we told you so."
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Re: Possible Leslie 2101mk2 setup

Postby Mooser » 15 Apr 2013, 18:00

"Wow!! This Leslie 3300 is amazing!! The first time I turned it on I got lost in the sound for a couple of hours."

Sorta pushed the whole "I need a sub-woofer" idea to the back-burner for now? I should think so. Remember, the vintage Leslies had 40 (maybe 60?) watts for everything, and this one is bi-amped with a gazillion watts. Actually, if I was looking for a sub, I would lean towards one that went as <i>high</i> as possible (200 hz or so) so it would cover more than the bottom three or four pedal notes.
If you had purchased the entire 2101 MkII system, it would have been much more money, two boxes, bigger and heavier, and still no real bottom rotor. And the 3300 has lines out, doesn't it, for additional speakers?

But still the mystery of no pedal sustain on Hammond consoles remains unsolved. At this point, there may be no one left who can answer the question. Oh well, they say he didn't like Leslie's either.
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