Nord C2D press release and pics

[jazzhead]

In response to the Crumar Mojo comment:
I had an opportunity to try a Crumar/Hamicord MC3 recently which I believe is based on the same or similar VB3 software as the Crumar Mojo.
My experience when trying the Hamichord was disappointing in so far as it sounded great but the build quality of the hardware and reliability of the sound generator was poor.
On two separate occasions the EXP module which hosts the VB3 software exhibited problems. On the first occasion the whole organ locked up and would not produce any sound at all. On the second occasion notes hung and the sounds from the reverse preset keys had a delay of approx 4 seconds when switching presets rapidly.
This is just stating my personal experience, there may be many Crumar/Hamichord users out there that are very happy with their instruments. Also the architecture of the Mojo may be different to the Hamichord, however my understanding is that both instruments utilise an internal windows based controller to host the VB3 software.
Current production models may have improved, the unit I played was approximately 18 months old.
I have also tried the KeyB system and the leslie sim/build quality was not to my taste.

So - my search for a clonewheel continues and is now narrowed down to the Nord C2D or the Hammond XK33 or XK3C pro system.
If anyone has any unbiased recommendations I would welcome your feedback. I guess this is a tricky one, since the C2D is not available yet!

regards

[DanielD71]

I have a Hammond xk3c with the Neo Ventilator and a couple of synths. When I heard about the future c2d, I thought immediatly of buying this new beast. Personnaly, I love the Nord organ sound, it's like it have more soul in it than my xk3c (that it's the reason why I bought the Vent)...So I started reading on this forum, and the more I read and listened to the audio/video demo of Nord products, I decided that my new keyboard will be the NS2.... I hope to have it soon !

The Crumar Mojo sounds very good but so does the C2...

Regards,

[robnuckels]

I love the C2. thru a Speakeasy tube pre-amp, combined with the outstanding overdrive & chorus/vibrato native to the c2 , i have everything that I want . but then, again, it depends on what KIND of vintage Hammond sound that you want. If classic drawbars is a MUST, then the C2d would probably suit your needs. the leslie sim in the Nord is great ; many people, however, prefer it thru a real leslie , vent, or Motion Sound . I have a Motion Pro 3x, which sounded great thru my earlier clonewheels, but is very NOISY. For recording purposes, the C2 leslie sim is great. I'm not much of a 'deep' editor, but programing on the c2 is easy, & FUN. The Hammond xk3c seems to be the choice for Jazz Organists who look for a more authentic straight Hammond sound as well as UI, but the Nord , in my opinion, delivers a great 'pure' sound. I , personally, got tired of the generic "jazz organ' sound (which often avoids the heavy overdrive distortion that I love). after a while, a steady 888 sound becomes, for me , redundant . The drawbuttons are easy to learn, & the programing is outstanding. However, it's a matter of personal taste. You have less editing options than the Hammond, but the Nord sounds so good out of the box, that more me, deep editing is superfluous. The nord is great for Booker t, early Jon lord, Santana, Keith Emerson, as well as Jimmy Smith & others. Essentially, the Nord is created for sound & convenience. It stands out, though many feel that over clones have at least caught up with it & even surpassed it. But that's all a matter of personal taste, just as the Hammond tonewheels were for many different types of sound.

[Mooser]

"I have a Motion Pro 3x, which sounded great thru my earlier clonewheels, but is very NOISY"

robnuckels:

Okay, here we go: I bought a Pro-3x and it also is defective. Yes, defective. I don't know about you, but I should have put mine right back in the box and sent it on back to wherever I ordered it (Guitar Center? Sweetwater? I forget) but I didn't. I was trying to hook my pro-3x to the balanced output of a vintage Hammond preamp, and assumed (I'm not smart, I admit it) the noise was from the Hammond.
Anyway, it turns out that a number of Pro-3x's were defective- they have bad FETs in the sim portion of the amp, and produce tremendous amounts of noise out the sim (and "mix") outlet, at all times, regardless of "gain" or "volume" setting.
The cure, if you can get it back to Motion Sound, is a "new board". I am waiting for one now, as they are back-ordered at Motion Sound. And I am not asking for anything from Motion Sound- I will pay any price they ask for the board, plus shipping, plus a fee to a local audio repair shop who is handling the repair. But I cannot get my hands on one.
So there you go- the Pro3x is not noisy by nature, you (and I) got a defective unit.
The only practical workaround is to put one channel from your C-2 into the Pro3x, and do not use the "sim" outlet. Plug the other channel into the "bottom amp" and turn the treble all the way down, or use a low-pass filter to feed the "bottom" amp.
This is really a shame, because I was so impressed by the concept and execution of the Pro-3x I purchased one as soon as I heard about it, and it creates a lot of interest among other players. The tonal difference from Leslie Products I can live with, for the sake of real rotary-horn sound. The excessive noise, (a full spectrum noise, at that!), I can't.
Motion Sound has been no real help, unfortunately. I have e-mailed, called, and get no useful response. I wish they would at least acknowledge that there are any number of defective Pro-3s out there. You can even see this problem detailed in the early reviews at Harmony Central. And if the Pro-3x goes out of production, is superseded or eliminated from the product line up, good luck ever getting it fixed.
In fact, let me try and call MS and see where we are at with this. I have had this damn Pro-3x for over a year now, and I have3 never heard it operate as it is supposed to!

[Mooser]

Hok-kay! Just spoke with Motion Sound, and got through to the right person, finally! He assures me that a board is allocated for me and will be sent, whenever the sub or assembly department, finally gets around to Pro-3x boards, maybe another week or two. And maybe then (after paying out half-again as much as it cost in the first place for the repair) I'll hear what a Pro-3x really sounds like.

Robnuckels, you should get in touch with Motion Sound. The Pro3x is not "noisy", it is defective. Try plugging the sim outlet into a line level or instrument amp with the gain and volume on the 3x at "0". Set the "bottom" amp at about 5. Hear all that noise? That is not right.

It's such a shame, too. A Pro-3x and a Peavy Kb-100 makes a not-too-big easily movable real rotary-horn rig. With a Nord C2 the entire rig fits easily in a compact sedan.

[robnuckels]

Thanks, Mooser. I got mine used off of ebay, & wound up taking it to my local Sound repair (CRUCUAL AUDIO) . It turned out that the mike was disconnected from the rotor. I bought an extra belt off of Steve Hayes @ SPEAKEASY, (who offer, by the way, support for Motion Sound products) Steve hinted that Motion Sound is slowly phasing itself out of business, ever since John Fisher sold the company. At least, that's how i remember the converstaion when speaking to Steve over the phone. Thanks for the info, Mooser.

[organut]

The Ventilator through a pair of good speakers smokes any Motion Sound Leslie clone.

[whitenoise]

Is there a dedicated bass amp to use with Pro-3x? How does it sound with piano sounds?

[robnuckels]

Whitenoise, when using the Motion Sound pro3x with a keyboard amp, I also sometimes use the Roland kcw1 subwoofer. (discontinued. it still shows up sometimes on ebay used. to the best of my limited knowledge, the kcw1 sub woof is the smallest (48lbs, 10" speaker) sub woofer made out of the mainstream amps. It doesn't have the power of the larger sub-woofs, but in small to medium size gigs it provides plenty of power, & almost makes the use of a 'keyboard' amp (in place of powered speakers or a power amp/speakers) justifiable. It definetely adds to the Motion sound experience, which, admittedly, is showing less & less of a popularity quotient among the ventilator warriors. 10 years ago, the most popular electronic leslie sim was the VOCE SPIN II. the pro3x is better than that for overdrive, but both of these products have become pretty much pushed in the background. there is a small core of Motion Sound afficianados who still stand by their product, (but then, again, there's still a cadre of roland VK& purists & dynachord loyalists, as well as Korg cx3 & Bx3 users.) In front of a crowd of music lovers who have never ventured out of the obscure ravines of the Appalachians & the Smoky Mountains, the original ANALOGUE clones & leslie sims would stun & amaze.
I've never tried piano thru the pro 3x. Yesterday, i took my 2 octave midi pedalboard to CRUCIAL AUDIO to fix some connectors, the once beautiful wood finish was so scarred up from so many different stompboxes, leslie sim pedals, expression pedals, etc leaving the tell-tale velcro stains, that now i'm leery of putting ANYTHING NEW ON IT.....(i admit, though, i may make an exception with the ventilator & pedal )
Excuse my irrelevant ramblings......I'm just sitting here at work thru a tedious web casting....ligh;t years away from the true Rotory CLUB.............(?)

[Mooser]

I've played piano and electric piano through a Pro-3x, and it sounds pretty much like a piano through a Leslie. "Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds" uses that effect in the opening bars, if my memory works.

The Pro-3x can be used with any bass amp, keyboard amp or even powered speaker which can support the horn. About 85% of the organ sound does come out the "bottom", so at least a 15" with 100 watts would be a good start. Any frequencies abopve 800hz will go to the horn in the Motion Sound. So you run the organ to the Motion sound and then to the bottom amp, which may also amplify the piano or synth. But the upper frequency speakers will just not be used when the Motion sound is feeding the lower frequencies only to the bottom amp.
It works well, unless there's a ton of noise coming out of the Motion Sound. And there's no way for the PA to filter out the noise, it's full spectrum.
My experience is that the Motion Sound horn does not sound quite as sweet as a Leslie, but people notice the difference bvetween the real thing and a sim, and react better to a real horn. I haven't yet tried a sim with the sound pumped through stereo PA speakers.