Nord User Forum

[ZeroZero]

Hello Folks. I am a pianist attempting transferring skills to Hammond. I can play freely in piano. I am more muso than techno, it does not come easy for me

I have had the Nord C2 in my studio sitting under its dust cover for some time. I have set it up, but don't like its current sounds. To some extent that is ears settling in I expect, but I am also a clutz at setting one of these things up.

If I can describe what I am thinking of doing, what I think is happening, can others with more experience of using it put me right where I am wrong. Please?

I want to play both Solo and Band stuff. I love the blues I can get something going on the piano , tip my hat to Jazz ( I have memorised a dozen or so Jazz Ballads - Georgia, Soul Eyes, that sort of thing, love soulful gospel sounds. I know there is a lot of worship stuff out there and it seems very musically. I want to get to the state where I am happy to go out with a blues band. I don't feel I have proper control yet.


For Band orientated stuff I use Band in the Box. The C2 Goes into a Focusrite Liquid 56 through a rather grand old Surround Cinema Amp (Sony STR D8780) and then into Tannoy Reveals.

For me the organ is sounding a bit shrill, perhaps a bit "digital". This could be set up issues of course, or lack of understanding on my part. If I had to I would buy some gear to improve the sound. I am seeking warm and syrapy.


When playing the creature of desire, I find that I am usijng much less left hand because a full chord sounds muddy, not sure of what to do about that, often one note in the bass seems adequate. Is this right?

As for drawbar settings, I wonder if there are any guidelines? I am familiar with Jimmy Smith setting, but that's really all. I went on Utube but just got confused eventually.

There are presets of course. They seem to be quite different, but I have no way of categorising them. I downloaded the PDF list and they don't seem to be in any particular 'gigging' order. Am I right to think if I start saving presets then I lose the default ones? I think Yes.

There is no way that I know to save a preset name? I think..?? Therefore it will be a matter of numbers.

What do other people do? For example does it make sense to have ten 'lead sounds' and ten full sounds.

Because I don't realy yet understand what drawbars work (even roughly speaking in certain settings, I feel like I am dabbling in the dark.

I gues its all about ears in the end, but maybe some of oyu can give me advice about how you would/do set up the presets. BTW I don't really need the other organs just the tonewheel

Which organ is best for a warm churchy type sound please?

Any other suggestions about setting up would be welcome.

I am considering setting up say 4 sounds, two lead sounds and two 'fuller' sounds for backing work. But I don't really know where to start.

Practise wise I am loading songs and just working simple ideas around and around the song until I begin to hear something useful. Its a bit hit and miss, I will consider a teacher (when I get through some bills). I myself teach sax, and have a strong background in theory.

sorry for the ramble, but my neuron has become confuzzled, I hope I conveyed my thoughts..

Bet I get some good advice....

Z


The way I see things (which is probably wrong) is that you have to set up the drawbars according to the "musical situation" (obviously), this seems to be more important than chorus, percussion and distortion.

[orcoaffamato]

I don't know much about the Hammond organ, 'cause I mostly play the pipe organ (the one for churchy type sound eheh), but I can suggest you to look for a manual that I bought time ago: http://www.amazon.com/Hammond-Organ-Com ... 0634014331

[ZeroZero]

Thank you this one is now in the post.

If others can tell me anything more I am all ears.....

Z

[peterh]

Hiya. I play the Stage 73 so there may be a few minor differences but from my pov its very easy to over-employ the Nord, and that makes for muddy sounds; too many drawbars + conflicting chorus+vibrato+leslie settings. Two pieces of advice I think you'll find useful - especially coming from a piano backgound:
1) start simple - remove all your effects and just build a clean B3 sound. Then add some percussion. Add your effects one at a time, then start to combine them. This will also help you to get to know how each effect changes the sound.
2) Find your "target sound" - e.g. Green Onions and try and emulate that. There are examples of well-known organ settings on this forum you can download, and on Youtube Keith Appleton has a number of short clips on organ technique - one of which is focussed on manipulating the Hammond sound.
The Nord is a superb instrument, particularly for live work - but it takes a month or two to get to know and love it - which you will.
Rgds

[ZeroZero]

Great advice Peter, I am learning a lot in this forum.

I had an early KeyB which had 'issues'. I also use a Roland 700NX for piano, this has a few tone wheel clones. To me both these instruments seem phatter than the Nord C2, which seems a but thin, a bit tinny and shrill in upper registers and lacking in beef in the lower - in my current set up. Do you have any suggestions about phatizing the sound, keep it warm and jellified? I am looking especially for a Gospel Church moody and brooding

I did not understand the advice about Conflicting chorus and Leslie settings, as I have no idea about how to effectively use them at this stage. How would you avoid conflict

So far I have saved no presets, as I am afraid of loosing those factory sounds, there is no read only Factory preset bank I think, this means its Factory presets OR user presets I think?

Z

[tacitus]

I don't find the C2D shrill, but then I am nearly 60 and have lost some HF off my own audio response! But I would suggest not worrying about presets for the moment because once you 'freeze' a setting, sure you can replace it or do a new one, but the tendency is not to, especially if you're a player rather than a gearhead.

I use the live settings so I have the drawbars in use all the time. I do find that although I probably start off with something like 88880000 on the top manual, I'll tweak it according to how I feel on the day, and where I"m playing and which amp/speaker(s) I'm using. To me it makes more sense to accept the Nord the way it is and use the drawbars to get the sound I want, rather than try to copy another instrument and have nowhere to go once I've nailed it.

Another great reason for using the drawbars live is that it encourages you to take your hand(s) off the keyboard! Somebody once said on a forum somewhere that their ideal band keyboard player would have one arm, so they can't clutter up the texture the way we pianists tend to by thinking more is better. Open fourths/fifths are not wonderful on a piano, but on a Hammond, another matter altogether.

Also, if you're going to play in a band you want to have your own signature sound to go with your signature licks. It's all very well imitating other players, but unless you're in a tribute band, it doesn't make sense to copy too closely.

Oh, and if you want to do piano-like stuff on a Hammond, best to reduce all the brown drawbar settings, especially at the bottom end. Then, even if you do get carried away with super-rich jazz chords, they will at least sound a bit more like what you'd expect ...

[ZeroZero]

More good advice thank you.

I see the sense in setting up a live sound intuitively and I guess in real settings their must be adjustments for PA, room acoustics and the thrash guitarist's amplification,
I was thinking that there would be 'lead' type sounds and there would be 'harmony' type sounds, and that one could instantly switch according to if one were working as part of the percussion section or as a soloist.
I also hear lots of texture in the sounds of good players, I think they ride the drawbars live and the swell pedal. I don't really understand the judicious use of the other controls yet. I hear that the swell is used with the Leslie.

Is it true that on tonewheels there is a lot less going on in the bass? I can impro on a piano easy, but I find tht \i have to take out most of my left hand and just settle on roots. Is this a learing curve? Are there any tips on how to handle the left hand on clodes?

thaanks again

Z

[RedLeo]

Please don't take this the wrong way, but might I suggest you chill out a bit. You're trying to learn everything at once and you're just confusing yourself overall. it's going to take you as long to learn to play Hammond as it took you to learn piano ie years. Try taking one thing at a time; trying to grasp advanced techniques before you really understand the basics is like trying to learn Chopin before you've learned your scales and arpeggios.

Start with learning some basic standard drawbar settings, simple chord voicings, and how to use leslie fast and slow settings. From there you could advance to learning melodic/solo right hand with simple single note bass lines or chordal left hand stuff - and just gradually build up your knowledge and skills.

To answer your specific question about left hand work: generally, left hand work is much simpler that on piano. Left hand piano techniques such as broken chords and arpeggios don't translate too well, because a played note on organ doesn't fade like a piano note, so too many successive overlapping notes will tend to become muddy. The piano is basically a percussive instrument, the organ is basically a sustaining instrument, so you need an entirely different approach. The fact that there is no sustain pedal also dictates organ technique to a considerable extent: now your fingers will have to do all the sustaining. Typically, left hand work on an organ will be either sustained chords, or sustained or walking single bass notes.

[RedLeo]

I agree on the last one about piano as a percussive instrument and Organ a sustain instruments.....but don't worry, I had been learning the piano (taking lessons I mean....) for 20 years and it didn't take me 20 years to have a correct level on the Organ....I restarted recently when I found a used C2 after having stopped playing music for 10 years and it went back quite fast....ok, I was playing an L100 Hammond in the past and started to be ok with bass pedals but when I play with my band, my left hand is almost sustaining chords all the time and solos or moving chords with the right hand.
For drawbars, just think of them like an arrangement. You add a third or a fifth to your root....or imagine a pipe organ with different length of pipe.....
I read a lot as well on drawbars at the beginning but now I'm just using my ears....I still think that bass pedal is a must have in jazz and I still need to buy one for my C2, even if it's just basic walking not too crazy.
Remember your first improvisation : your teacher told you, just play on left hand basic chords and let you right hand playing what you hear in your head.....do the same with organ....I use left big open chord on Organ way less than piano, especially because I sustain the left hand and keep the right for solos.....
The big thing and good thing as well with the C2 is that you can even play with one hand only and use the left one to change settings, effects, percussions...Listen to medevsky, the Organist who is playing with John Scotfield....he s using all the time his left hand to tweak his sound.....and his organ sounds really full.....no need too much to fill a lot of notes with Hammond, the "beast" fill it in by itself....
That's it for me, bye

[ZeroZero]

thank you all good advice again. I like the idea of starting simple I do this all the time on piano. I am also getting to realise that the drawbar settings are all about ears and musical setting/levels

Z