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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby kbrkr » 25 May 2017, 19:13

Either you are a hobbyist who plays for free or your a paid pro. There is nothing in between.

I refuse to play for less than my asking price and that includes pro bono. I have toiled over lessons, finger exercises, setlist preparation, song rehearsals, purchased expensive amps, keyboards, iPads, software, sheet music, microphones, keyboard stands, cases, cables, foot pedals, tuxedos, stage clothing, etc. etc. At this point I'm even asking to get paid for rehearsals. My time is just too valuable to give away for free. I'm no great virtuoso, but I know what I'm worth and the value I bring to an audience.
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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?


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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby dhbp-nord » 25 May 2017, 19:34

There is plenty in between. Many make a partial income playing pro gigs while doing other things to supplement.

Don't even know why this is a thing really. Who cares what the distinction is. Whatever floats your boat.

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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby bartley99 » 12 Jun 2017, 17:40

I am a musician but I have a day job too. Software engineering/consulting by day. 200+ show in 2016 and looking 225+ shows/session gigs in 2017. All paid.

I won't even roll-up a cable unless I'm getting at least $200 for 4-hour show. Session work is $100/hr. It's a business. Run it like one.

Club/venue owners are in business too. They want value for their money which means lot's of food and booze sales. I approach my bands like a business (knowing your demographic, branding, business plans, research, right product at the right time). We also spend 50% of your time marketing our bands. I think that's the part a lot of bands gloss-over. Also,these are all original music bands...very few covers. You can make a decent buck if you hustle. Always think like a businessman and you will get paid. I've learned that once you play for free, you will always be expected to play for free.
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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby Quai34 » 13 Jun 2017, 01:04

"I've learned that once you play for free, you will always be expected to play for free."

Exactly, as a business owner, would you do something for free? Would bar owners will open their door for free?, no, so why us as musicians...
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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby magpie85 » 13 Jun 2017, 11:04

Quai34 wrote:"I've learned that once you play for free, you will always be expected to play for free."

Exactly, as a business owner, would you do something for free? Would bar owners will open their door for free?, no, so why us as musicians...


Actually I do stuff for free for my clients all the time. It's about having business sense though, if you do a free gig its because it makes business sense. Maybe its a charity gig, or a goodwill gesture for something, maybe you are starting out as a band and want the visibility. My clients pay me well for the service I offer, so when they have little questions I answer them for free rather than adding hourly rates onto the end. My clients would soon go elsewhere if I started getting pedantic about every minute I spend working with them.

Like I said, its about business sense, assuming you are doing this for business. I'd be happy to be in a band and getting to play on a regular basis. Playing keys will never be part of my bread and butter so its not a problem for me.
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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby kbrkr » 13 Jun 2017, 15:22

Free Gigs are only Business Sense for the recipient of the free services.
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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby magpie85 » 13 Jun 2017, 15:37

kbrkr wrote:Free Gigs are only Business Sense for the recipient of the free services.


I have to respectfully disagree as per my comment above. There are definitely cases where I see it as sensible to offer a free gig. In the UK it is not uncommon if you are not well known to have to guarantee a certain number of people will come to the venue, rather than being paid. Its all about the exposure. Get a regular slot in the future and you may be able to command a fee, but we all have to start somewhere.

But as I said, I don't see playing keyboard as a business so it doesn't bother me.
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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby Gambold » 13 Jun 2017, 16:09

Our band plays roughly half its gigs free. Charity events, block parties...that kind of thing.

None of us are in it for the money, we all have day jobs. When we do get paid, great - but it's almost never more than $100 per band member. That's the reality of sports bars or town festivals or wherever you go, if you're not a full-up professional outfit that does it as a career.
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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby bartley99 » 13 Jun 2017, 18:20

I should add that I do play for free or at cost for charity events. One of my bands plays monthly Wounded Warrior fundraisers. Lot's to Toys for Tots events in October and November. Our charity events have the benefit of exposing us to new fans who buy our merchandise. For "playing for free" charity events, we at least try to get a merch-stand setup to cover basic travel expenses.

I hope I didn't come across sounding like a rude, greedy bastard. I love to give back. I'm really a nice guy and feel very blessed that anyone would even want to listen to me play keyboards because I think I suck. In a business-to-business situation, I have to get paid otherwise there is no value or partnership in the service I offer. To a club-owner, I am not a musician - I am a cocktail-consumption-facilitator. If I do my job well, people will stick around and drink lots of beer making the club lots of money on over-priced shitty beer and crappy martini's made with "cotton-candy" infused vodka (oh my). That's the business reality of the whole situation. My new Nord Stage3 is going to set me back $4500. So, there needs to be income to offset the expense.

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Re: Who is reall a "Pro" in our community?

Postby Gambold » 13 Jun 2017, 21:35

>I hope I didn't come across sounding like a rude, greedy bastard.<

Not at all - everyone has their own reasons for wanting to play live, and their own notions of what constitutes a fair payoff for the effort.

I hope I'm not presenting myself as the Jesus of cover band musicians. There are certain things I *won't* do for free - like haul in a sound system. If the venue isn't paying, then they either have to provide sound or stipend us to do it. That's only fair, and any charity worth its tin cups has to budget for that kind of thing.

I also am not a big believer in scheduling mandatory band practices for free gigs. We are experienced enough, and our catalog deep enough, that we don't need to accommodate our busy schedules to learn new material or run through stuff we've played many times before, for a free party. If someone misses a note or there's a false stop on a song because of this - oh well, it's FREE. I do think a practice is in order right before a paying gig however - because you wan't them to ask you back and pay you again :)

>To a club-owner, I am not a musician - I am a cocktail-consumption-facilitator.<

That's correct - in bars it's all about bringing in bodies to move the liquor. That's all it is...a very simple concept that bands with artistic pretensions learn the hard way. That's not to say you can't strive for excellence or originality - but the appreciation of your work is finally reflected in how many rounds get ordered. Your friends are going to shout and applaud no matter how you sound up there.
Last edited by Gambold on 13 Jun 2017, 21:36, edited 1 time in total.
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