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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby analogika » 15 May 2016, 16:15

Oh, I dunno. I see as a bit of sports. :)

The point is, you made a claim that simply isn't true, and despite reality bias and plenty of evidence supplied to the contrary, you've just shifted goalposts and criteria to try and weasel out of being wrong.

Now that you've been nailed down, you've tried to turn it into a case of supposed character assassination - which it isn't - and are now accusing me of being way too emotionally involved.

I dunno.

Let's review:

emartin149 wrote:>their stuff is used on virtually every major live tour<

That's a bold statement. Not sure how we are defining "major," but no A-list artist in the USA has them on tour.


Wrong.
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes


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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby pablomastodon » 17 May 2016, 08:28

wow, step away for a couple days and see that the flood gates have opened!

for starters, the other night I submitted a post which said something really rude, insulting and just plain stupid. I went back in and edited it out within minutes, but apparently not quickly enough. As a result I sat right down and began writing a lengthy apology along with further response. My computer glitched, the whole thing was erased in an instant and I didn't have the heart/strength to try to recreate it at that time. So here I am now...

Firstly, everyone has the right to criticize, to voice their opinion(s). I apologize to emartin and to the group for having suggested otherwise.

Sometimes it seems to me that some criticism goes above and beyond and, rightly or wrongly, I sense an attitude that a poster is saying that Nord is essentially a bunch of incompentent fools (or evil money-grubbing villains) and if only they would wake up and change their designs to suit said poster's vastly superior intellect, then and only then Nord might grow to become a respectable and perhaps even successful keyboard company. Please note, emartin, I am not saying that you conveyed this attitude specifically, just that I see it here and there from time to time and am sensitive towards that.

The side of the road is littered with companies who have failed in the electronic instrument making business. Some of them are now back and it is delightful to see names like Dave Smith and Tom Oberheim and Moog and Roger Linn with new, interesting, quality products, but they each suffered some hard knocks along the way before entering their Phoenix phases. Nord is well into their 3rd decade at this and seemingly doing just fine. Considering that they do this IN Sweden at Swedish labor rates, and NOT in SE Asia (like almost everyone else) is all the more remarkable.

Boutique? I think of them as boutique in the sense that they are small and flexible and agile. This is a large part of their success, I believe. Wouldn't have it any other way. The fact that a "boutique" can go forth into the world and do battle with corporate behemoths and live to tell the tale, and thrive, and succeed is quite inspirational.

A-list artists? I rattled off tons of names in my vanished post. Now I see that others have stepped up there. Part of the reason you don't see more of them on "A-list" tours is that these tours often employ art directors whose sensibilities are offended by the red beasts, so they hire carpenters to fabricate phony cabinets to house them and shroud their view from out front.

The highest grossing artist on the planet for 2015 (and also 2014 I think) has four Nords working onstage in the band behind her. On when she sits down to play a keyboard, it's a 5th Nord. The Grammy Museum requested, and received, the gorgeous white grand she used on her 2014 tour and displayed it in the lobby of the museum for months. Anyone paying close attention would have notice the carefully constructed white vinyl fall designed to hide the Nord controls, the wooden ends covered in white duct tape. The guts of the acoustic instrument had been ripped out and replaced with an original Nord Piano. In fact, it was widely rumored that NORD was the underlying inspiration for the name of her album and tour: RED. As we speak the Grammy Museum is reaching out for the Nord Piano 2 from her latest tour, encased in her latest art director's space-themed cabinet for display.

The list of quality artists whose pockets are deep and who can afford anything available on the planet and choose Nord is very long, indeed. Lady Antebellum, Florida-Georgia Line on the country side. John Mayer, Maroon 5, Gaga (that circular thing is a controller and is midi'd to Nord, among other things), Usher. Harry Connick, Jr., Bobby McFerrin, Pete Levin (A-list player even if ticket/album sales don't agree). Madonna.

In the end, for me, it all comes down to the fact that I bought a new Fender Rhodes in 1980 and played it for four years and the current Nord Rhodes sounds take me right back. Maybe my ears aren't as finely honed as those of others, maybe my fingers aren't either. But it sure as heck works for me. This whole "no proper rhodes" thing is just wrong in my view.

Bless,

Pablo
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby white elefant » 21 May 2016, 17:49

Hmm, I thought I started this thread with a technical question, but I have to realize that the answer lies somewhere here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Freud
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby pablomastodon » 22 May 2016, 03:09

Most all of the controversy here arose from the editorialized nature of the nontechnical question claiming that there is "no proper Rhodes." Many have agreed and many have disagreed, but it's all subjective opinion. There was nothing at all technical about your initial question.

from one pachyderm to another :-)
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby emartin149 » 23 May 2016, 20:35

The topic got sidelined twice...first on whether or not Clavia should pre-announce a release schedule, and then a "Nords ain't famous enough" tussle.

Back to the original idea...I think the Rhodes sounds are great on the Nord. plenty to choose from too. If I really want something that sounds *perfectly* like a Rhodes...then I'll buy a Rhodes.
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby lordy » 23 May 2016, 21:35

I pre-order a nordpiano 3, cause new keybed, oled, memory, ergonomic dashboard and beautiful work of Nord team, etc, etc.
Nevertheless, i know that rhodes are not so cool...
I am a rhodes preparator technician, and i played on nordpiano, motif, etc...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mB0aqjjz4fc
Last edited by lordy on 23 May 2016, 21:41, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby analogika » 24 May 2016, 20:54

emartin149 wrote:The topic got sidelined twice...first on whether or not Clavia should pre-announce a release schedule, and then a "Nords ain't famous enough" tussle.

Back to the original idea...I think the Rhodes sounds are great on the Nord. plenty to choose from too. If I really want something that sounds *perfectly* like a Rhodes...then I'll buy a Rhodes.


If you see the nord as an instrument unto itself, yes. The electro 2 I own has that quality: it's worth keeping just for the ways it sounds different from anything else.

For the stage 2, I really see it as wanting something that sounds *perfectly* like a Rhodes…without LUGGING the Rhodes.

I HAVE one, and it's damn near perfect. But that stays in the studio.
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby emartin149 » 24 May 2016, 21:26

>I really see it as wanting something that sounds *perfectly* like a Rhodes<

Well, I'm enough of a romantic to think to that no amount of digital wizardy will ever "perfectly* copy the real thing. I'm not even talking blind taste tests...the knowledge that you are playing an actual Rhodes over a synthetic one is going to fill the final holes for the true Rhodes enthusiast. In the end, it's a total experience, not just an aural or tactile one.

Not to offend any of those enthusiasts...but your audience, unless Chick Corea is sitting in the front row, isn't going to notice the difference between your honest-to-God Fender Rhodes and the Stage 2 cranking out one of the larger samples (or hell, any of the EP1 set)...especially if you are playing with other amplified instruments.
Last edited by emartin149 on 24 May 2016, 21:27, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby analogika » 24 May 2016, 21:46

The point, I think, is to have something that reacts and plays and sounds like a real instrument TO THE PLAYER, because s/he will play better.

I can get a passable organ out of most any emulation and will be able to operate it to audience/contractor satisfaction, but I'll play better if I have the full console and a real closet screaming at me. The closer it gets, the more inspired I'll be.

It will probably never be exactly like an original (though with Rhodes', no single original is *exactly* like any other), but we can aim to get as close as possible.

The electro 2 clavinet, FWIW, I will often play instead of my studio E7, because it's a true joy to play and sounds crazy good. Even though it doesn't do feedback or note-off clacks.
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Re: Rhodes - why only new pianosamples and no proper Rhodes

Postby maxpiano » 25 May 2016, 08:16

emartin149 wrote:Well, I'm enough of a romantic to think to that no amount of digital wizardy will ever "perfectly* copy the real thing. I'm not even talking blind taste tests...the knowledge that you are playing an actual Rhodes over a synthetic one is going to fill the final holes for the true Rhodes enthusiast. In the end, it's a total experience, not just an aural or tactile one.


+1 (from another romantic) and playing a real Rhodes can be a pain, some units have keyboards that will break your fingers but... it's the real thing; still, you can fully enjoy playing a digital replica of the Rhodes as well, if you just set the expectations right (and appreciate also the advantages compared to the original, not just the differences)
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