Nord User Forum

[ketar]

Hi guys, I know *a lot* about guitars, but I dunno s**t about keyboards and I really really need some advices.

Here it is the problem. I am going to accomplish the dream of a lifetime: having my own rehearsal room. Such a luxury!
I want to equip it with a *resident* digital keyboard for start playing it a little but also with the purpose of having a good quality instrument that will do the job for future musicians coming to play with me.

I was considering buying something from Clavia Nord given that it seems they are the average good quality all purposes keyboards I see on stages. I mainly enjoy the organs and electric pianos sounds, but for sure some good acoustic piano sounds would be handy, and for sure some synths would not bother.
I am searching in the second hand market: can't afford to buy it new.
Tho I have many doubts.

First question: would you choose a waterfall SW or a weighted keyboard? What is more eclectic? Personally, since I am not a piano player I have more fun with waterfall (it feels "easier" for my not educated fingers), but maybe a true keyboardist would choose a hammer action (and adapt himself to play organs with that).

Second question: searching in the used market I see I could afford a stage 2 (no ex) or electro 4 or 3 (but no synth Lead sounds there, ofc). How big is the difference - *soundwise* - between those instruments and the latest generation (stage 3 and electro 5)? Demos doesn't help: one can't really perceive the difference from that. I guess only real experience can tell if the differences are marginal or not.
Thanks for your suggestions!

[NoDirection]

For organ and electric pianos I would have bought SW action - And as you describe your needs, I would suggest you find a good second hand Nord Electro 4 SW 73.

I have a Nord Electro 5 with more opportunities to layer two sounds, split etc... But since you are a beginner with keyboards, and your visitors maybe don't know Nord Electro 5, I would have bought something simple to use like the Electro 4.
Electro 5 got more memory for more sounds (samples), but you don't need so many to start with. I rarely use more than 10-15 sounds (samples) while playing with others.
If you must have synth leads, then buy the second hand NordStage 2.

[Schulti]

since I am not a piano player I have more fun with waterfall (it feels "easier" for my not educated fingers), but maybe a true keyboardist would choose a hammer action (and adapt himself to play organs with that).

So i can tell you as a pianoplayer and keyboarder, that i am suprised by the resistance the waterfall keys have on my S3compact. And that is (for me) a good thing, because it is not that far away from a weighted keybed - but of course you have to play it a little different (but thats something you will learn automaticaly).

[Tasten-Bert]

You say you would like to set up your equipment also for other musicians. Maybe you will rent your room as a studio one day ... So if I were you and money would not play a role I would go for a nord electro 5D, 61 or 73 keys, for all the organ players and would accompany this board with a good hammer action master keyboard from Fatar Studiologic, midi-connected to play the excellent piano sounds of the nord. And if money is short, I would try to get a used NE4 plus a used Masterboard. I could imagine that these can be found around 800,- plus 600,- €. Good luck and would be nice hearing your results.

[ketar]

This is actually very interesting Tasten-Bert. An option that I did not consider until now. I will probably not rent my studio to whoever, but for sure I could enjoy to have some friends using it for their projects. Sadly money do play a role, always. Actually I can't find anything below 1300 euro on the second hand local market (Electro 5 SW 73 or 61)
For sure I'll keep you guys posted.

[anotherscott]

I am searching in the second hand market: can't afford to buy it new.
...
searching in the used market I see I could afford a stage 2 (no ex) or electro 4 or 3 (but no synth Lead sounds there, ofc). How big is the difference - *soundwise* - between those instruments and the latest generation (stage 3 and electro 5)?

The differences between those older models and the newest models more in the areas of functionality than in sounds. (Though I'd say it's kind of moot if buying the newest models is not an option anyway.)

would you choose a waterfall SW or a weighted keyboard? What is more eclectic?

Broadly speaking, different keyboard players will answer this differently, and since you don't know who will be using the gear, there's no clearly right answer to the weighted vs. semi question. However, since we're talking specifically about particular Nord models here, I would have suggestions. If you get a Stage 2 (not EX), I would choose the weighted action, since in that particular case, I think the SW action is worse for piano than the HA is for organ/synth, and the HA is quite good for piano. However, if you choose the Electro, I would choose the SW action, because the weighted ("HP") action available on the Electro is not really great at anything, it is a compromise specifically to keep travel weight down, something that will not be a factor in your studio use.

As mentioned, you can supplement in the future with a second board (whether it has its own sounds or not), to provide both kinds of actions to the player. If you think you'll ultimately go that path, I would still stick with SW if you go with an Electro (then add any weighted board that has a sandard 5-pin DIN MIDI Out jack). With the Stage 2, you could go either way (get the hammer action version and supplement in the future with a semi, or vice versa)... but I'd still lean toward the hammer action on the Nord itself, and get some other SW in the future. I think it will be the better one to have in the interim, and I think the NS2 hammer action board is a better hammer action board than the NS2-SW is a SW.

[themixtape]

As everyone says-- really depends on the music style for the keybed. Personally, I can't go without weighted keys. What I would do if I were you, money-wise, is this:

Buy a Nord Electro 5 HP used (often found for about $2k). Since it can do layers... now, buy a simple semi-weighted MIDI controller (61 key, like an M-Audio Axiom 61, that has standard MIDI out, and the ability to use a power supply instead of having it connected to a computer). Midi it up to the Nord Electro 5 HP--- set the MIDI channel/split so the organ or synth/sample patches are routed to the Axiom 61, and all the grand/upright/Rhodes/Wurly sounds played from the Nord itself.

That's the best of both worlds, and certainly the most cost-effective option.

If cost isn't much of a factor-- a Nord Stage 2 EX used runs you about $2700. The keys have a nice weight to them but also can easily be "smeared" for organ-style playing.

But I would definitely considering going the route of an Electro 5 HP paired with a plug-in/standard MIDI port keyboard... total cost: $2150. Everything you need in one place.

On the flipside--- as suggested above, get a used Electro 5D61 (can be found as low as $1500)-- pair it with a nice digital piano with weighted keys and standard MIDI (Yamaha P35, Casio PX-160, Korg SP170s, etc)... that would run you about $2000 or less. Route the pianos (MIDI-channel-wise) to the weighted board... and have the Nord itself play the organs and synth/sample stuff (or the piano, if you prefer the SW feel).

PS - there's no difference in sounds. Anything from the Electro 3 forward uses the Nord Piano Library, and Nord Sample Library. All sounds are identical, which makes the Nords exceptionally useful. Customize the sounds with what you want. Good stuff.

[anotherscott]

Buy a Nord Electro 5 HP used (often found for about $2k).

His budget seems to be below 1300 euro. But also, I just can't imagine too many people really preferring to play an HP action over just about anything else, unless they really need its portability.

On the flipside--- as suggested above, get a used Electro 5D61 (can be found as low as $1500)-- pair it with a nice digital piano with weighted keys and standard MIDI (Yamaha P35, Casio PX-160, Korg SP170s, etc)... that would run you about $2000 or less. Route the pianos (MIDI-channel-wise) to the weighted board...

Casio PX-160 doesn't have the standard MIDI out jack for that to work. Have to go up to the PX-350 (or something older like a CDP-100 or PX-less-than-130).

PS - there's no difference in sounds. Anything from the Electro 3 forward uses the Nord Piano Library, and Nord Sample Library. All sounds are identical, which makes the Nords exceptionally useful. Customize the sounds with what you want. Good stuff.

Mostly true, but some caveats. For example, Nord Piano Library sounds (IMO) noticeably better with the Long Release option that the NE3 lacked. NE3 also lacks some of the resonance capabilities, IIRC. Sample Library sounds can be tweaked to different extents on different models (and of course, on a Stage 2+, you can split/layer two of them).

[cphollis]

Weighted vs. unweighted: if you have to choose one, choose weighted. Someone who is used to playing acoustic and electric pianos will usually struggle on an unweighted action. But you can do a lot of organ, synth etc. on a weighted keyboard -- although not everything you'd like to, like palm smears and blazing riffs.

Nord vs. other brands. I love the Nords, I do, but in this situation $$$ may force you in a different direction. Think "bang for buck". As an example, many players are quite happy with their Casio PS5X which has been heavily discounted recently. The Roland VR-09 comes up quite a bit in that category. Used is perfectly acceptable.

Best of luck.

[themixtape]

Good points, about the sounds/money, etc.

What helped me get my Nord(s) over the past few years (yes I never own more than one at a time, just trying out different boards for my needs)... PAYMENT PLANS.

Zzounds, American Musical Supply... they offer 5, 8, 12-month no interest plans. They approve nearly everyone (and I have horrible credit). Worth a look.