2 masters, 1 slave - must use external midi merge box?

[chunkylover53]

Hey I'm pretty sure the answer to this question is no, but before I go out and buy a midi merge box....

Is there any way to control the Nord Stage 2 with two masters without using a midi merge box?

Right now I have a duel keyboard setup with a Nord Electro 3 (master) controlling a Nord Stage 2 (slave). I'd like to add a second midi controller (second master) playing the NS2's sounds, that somebody else in the band will play.

I thought there might be some way to do this without external gear, since the NS2 manual basically says this setup is possible....and then just leaves it at that.

Thanks!

[chunkylover53]

Hi Chunky,

You have a single midi input port and a single USB port. If your secondary master is capable of transmitting midi via USB, you're in business -- simply assign whatever NS2 sections to whatever midi input you like. If not, get a merge box.

Bless,

Pablo

[mjbrands]

If your secondary master is capable of transmitting midi via USB, you're in business

Wouldn't you still need an USB host (i.e. a computer) and some software? If the keyboard used by the bandmate was able to send MIDI over USB (like the Stage 2), it would be a USB device and not a USB host. You can only connect a USB host to a device, not two the devices to each other - the cables wouldn't even allow you to do this. Both devices would have a B type connector (square), while the other side of the cable would have a A type connector (rectangular). Sure you could plug the USB cable from both devices into a USB hub, but then you'd still need to connect that USB hub to a host (i.e. a laptop) to take MIDI from one device and send it to the other.

The Stage 2 has 'soft MIDI thru' functionality; this is a setting you can enable in the MIDI menu. MIDI Thru means that the device sends a copy of the data coming in over the MIDI IN port and sends it out the MIDI Thru port. This is a 3rd MIDI port that most older devices with MIDI have. The Stage 2 doesn't have it, but it does have a setting in the MIDI menu that does pretty much the same thing; the Stage 2 sends a copy of MIDI data coming in on the MIDI IN port out the MIDI OUT port. You could connect the Electro 3 to the MIDI OUT port of the Stage 2 and the bandmate's MIDI OUT port to the MIDI IN port of the Stage 2. By setting up the MIDI channels in a smart fashion, both the Stage 2 and the bandmate's keyboard could control the Electro 3.

Of course this is not what you're asking for. If the Electro 3 also had this soft MIDI Thru functionality you could switch the Stage 2 and Electro 3 in the scenario above, but unfortunately the Electro 3 doesn't have that feature.

To do what you want, using either a laptop on stage (not ideal, but does have some advantages) or a merge box seems the way to go. The laptop solution is free, provided you have a laptop available. The two most obvious merge boxes are probable the MIDI Solutions Merge (2 ports) or Quadra Merge (4 ports) and the Kenton Merge-4 (4 ports). The Merge is the cheapest, but the Quadra is more expensive than the Kenton and the Kenton has more features. One advantage of the MIDI Solutions boxes is that they take power off of the MIDI outputs; this is not officially allowed by the MIDI standards, but generally works fine. I'm not sure it works on the Nord's though (their web site should have this info). If it doesn't, you'll need a second box to 'inject' the power into the first input of the MIDI merger.

The Kenton has a metal housing, the MIDI Solutions a plastic one; both should be very sturdy.

[chunkylover53]

Thanks for all the info, mjbrands! That's interesting about the soft midi through available on the NS2 - I didn't realize that. That would be one option, to control the NE3 with the NS2, instead of the other way around...but I'd probably end up losing much capability, like all the synth stuff on the NS2.

I'll look into making sure the MIDI Solutions Merge box will work with my rig, it sounds like the best option. I've dealt with laptops on stage in the past, but it sure is nice to not have to deal with one if possible.... Thanks again.

[chunkylover53]

I'm not sure it works on the Nord's though (their web site should have this info).

I remember reading that the nords are not able to power MIDI boxes. So you need to use a battery or transformer.

[JiminWales]

Kenton do a USB-5pin Midi adapter that acts as the PC "host". It only works if the USB instrument only requires the basic class compliant USB-midi driver that comes with Mac or Windows o/s. If the Stage needs a special USB driver installed before a Mac or Windows pc can "see" it as a midi device - it won't work. Also the stage must be able to use USB midi at the same time as the 5pin midi. My Electro can't - it's one or the other.

[mjbrands]

Kenton do a USB-5pin Midi adapter that acts as the PC "host". It only works if the USB instrument only requires the basic class compliant USB-midi driver that comes with Mac or Windows o/s. If the Stage needs a special USB driver installed before a Mac or Windows pc can "see" it as a midi device - it won't work. Also the stage must be able to use USB midi at the same time as the 5pin midi.

That would work, I think. The Nord is class compliant, so doesn't need a MIDI driver. This would be like adding a second MIDI IN port on the Stage.

I saw that particular Kenton box and it seems to cost about the same as the Kenton 4-port MIDI merger. A MIDI merger seems a bit more 'general purpose' to me, since it will also work with the Electro.

Here's a link to a short Sound-on-Sound article on it: http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/feb12/a ... b-host.htm

[rb4u1]

I have found that when controlling an Electro with an external board ,
that note on/off messages on the same note can possibly cancel each other.
I'm not sure how that would affect your situation.

[chunkylover53]

Thanks for all the help. Sounds like either of those Kenton boxes would work for what I want to do, although if they're a similar price I like the scalability of the 4-port merger.

[JiminWales]

I expect the merger will be best value. I have an old Midiman 2in/2out that I keep in the toolbox.
On the other hand, as lots of entry level digital pianos and controller keyboards now omit the old 5pin DIN midi ports, maybe a USB adapter will have uses for some time to come?