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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby PaulOnheiserJazz » 23 Feb 2014, 11:21

I figured I would add my 2 cents, considering I work in a rather large music store with lots of equipment. I have tried various amplifiers and speakers, ranging from studio monitors, to keyboard amplifiers, to passive and powered speakers.

In my opinion, Keyboard amplifiers do a very poor job of properly replicating the sound of a piano, or in general, sounds one would expect from a keyboard. (Synth sounds, Brass, Piano, EP's, ect ect....) There is a reason for this too. I have had a Roland keyboard amp for many years, and for many years I have been dissatisfied with the sound. Now I am in no way bashing Roland keyboard amps, because I feel like they are a very good product, I just don't like the way they sound. Playing music through it leisurely it works great, but on the gig I am not satisfied.

So on to the reason why keyboards amps seem to fail at replicating the sound.... and the problem lies in the tweeter. Or more specifically, the 'Piezo driver.' The issue is not the Piezo itself, its the fact that they are not built to accommodate the grand range of a keyboard, and replicate high frequency sounds at high volumes. They fail, and we get that annoying distortion sound at high volumes in the upper registers of the keyboard. What keyboard amps really need, is what they place in all PA speakers, and that's a dedicated horn driver for the high end. Horns are able to replicate high frequency sounds under high power loads for years without failure. I've seen far more baskets being replaced and rarely if ever see a horn fail. So why do keyboard amps not add horn drivers? I cant answer that, but there are a few options out there. In my opinion they end up not worth the investment, because they are bulky, expensive, and weigh a ton. (One last note, I always am fighting the EQ on the keyboard amps, and I feel like keyboard amps have some weird mid scoop pre-programmed in that you are constantly trying to EQ out of your sound.... extremely frustrating.)

So enough babbling and now on to my recommendations.... Get a PA speaker. Passive speakers are a great alternative to keyboard amps BUT you have to carry around an amp and a mixer, and who wants to fool with all that? So that narrows it down to Powered speakers. And there I do have a few recommendations.

For the budget conscious out there, Electro Voice (EV) makes an amazing powered speaker, 1000watts (500program/continuous) that I personally use myself and I have to say that it really truly replicated the sound of my Nord Piano, and every time I use it I am extremely pleased with the resulting sound. The series I'm referring to is the ZLX series speakers, and they come in 12" and 15" variants. (ZLX12p/ZLX15p). They weigh in at 32lbs on the 12 inch and 38lbs on the 15 inch. It also has a cool back lit LCD panel for adjusting EQ and position of the speaker (Pole, Monitor, Wall) so it will throw the sound accordingly. I use the 12'' myself. They retail here in the states at $399 and $499 respectively.

For those who have a bit more money to spend, I would highly recommend the QSC K series speakers (K8, K10, K12.) This series doesn't come with a 15 inch variant, but when you hear the 12 you won't feel the need for a 15. Also whats nice about this series is that you get some more flexibility with the size of the speaker. For those who would like something smaller then 12 there's the 8" and 10" variants to choose from. All use the same 1000watt class D power amp, making them super efficient and very light weight. And the sound is scary good, and you have plenty of head room if you need to play a loud venue. Here in the states they are going for $699 for the 8, $749 for the 10, and $849 for the 12. Check them out.

Only down side to the powered speakers is you are relegated to two inputs. However these companies provide an aux input on all these series speakers which is great for hooking up your phone, ipod, mp3 player or whatever. But if you really need more inputs you can always roll with a small passive mixer, like the Peavey PV6 or a small Mackie 402 or 802 mixer, and honestly it really doesn't add much to your setup.

Hope this helps :thumbup:
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?


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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby Dugrok » 26 Feb 2014, 19:09

I've been using a powered speaker for a few years now. While I prefer it to an amp for general use, I think using a guitar head and cab for e pianos can work fairly well too.

If I know I'm playing a gig where the sound will be good and that the stage wedge will be enough, I don't even bother bringing my speaker.

The trouble is, in small gigs (the kind I play most of the time) even my 400w Samson Aurora is a little bit too quiet sometimes (Ok so the band is actually too loud and the acoustics of these places are the real culprit, but you understand what I mean).

But that's the best solution I've been able to find so far...
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby damasp » 26 Feb 2014, 23:39

I'll recommend the EV ELX112 also. Great sound quality. Recently bought a second one. ProAudioStar online thru Ebay has killer prices - paid just over 4bills new. I believe they are louder than the other EV - Z series. Max SPL - 132db compared to 126db. They are a little heavier though and are wood cased.
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby PaulOnheiserJazz » 27 Feb 2014, 07:43

damasp wrote:I'll recommend the EV ELX112 also. Great sound quality. Recently bought a second one. ProAudioStar online thru Ebay has killer prices - paid just over 4bills new. I believe they are louder than the other EV - Z series. Max SPL - 132db compared to 126db. They are a little heavier though and are wood cased.


We carry both the ELX and the ZLX series. In comparison to the ELX Series, the ZLX is lighter then the ELX, and also has a 'Crisper' (brighter perhaps?) sound, comparing them side by side (And we have them on a functional display next to each other where I work, and I have tested them back and fourth.) The ZLX series have a smaller footprint, and have a more economical and modern design. The ZLX features an LCD backlight panel that I haven't seen on another powered speaker yet, and gives you some more flexibility on manipulating the sound. Both speakers sound Amazing however, and both series are great options to replicate the sound of your Nord! Anyone who grabs a ELX or ZLX speaker for their Nord is making a good choice.
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby Six-string-man » 27 Feb 2014, 13:50

The EV ZLX12P's are great.

However, take a look at Yamaha's DXR 10. They are more expensive, but quite a lot louder, and only weigh 32 lbs. The sound quality is out of this world!


SSM
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby damasp » 27 Feb 2014, 21:05

Thanks for your comparison of the two EV cabinets PaulOnheiserJazz. Good to hear that you tested them side by side. I was wondering what else was different about the two besides having a wood case, weight and sound level. The ZLX is less expensive too. When I purchased my first EV ELX the ZLX weren't released yet.

Our band gets awful loud at times and I was wondering if the ZLX could get as loud without losing clarity? Another motive for buying a second ELX was to be able to sell them as a pair if I wanted to at some point. The last powered speaker I owned was a model that was discontinued and when I wanted to sell it for an EV, it was a little harder to sell a single one.
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby PaulOnheiserJazz » 02 Mar 2014, 03:46

damasp wrote:Thanks for your comparison of the two EV cabinets PaulOnheiserJazz. Good to hear that you tested them side by side. I was wondering what else was different about the two besides having a wood case, weight and sound level. The ZLX is less expensive too. When I purchased my first EV ELX the ZLX weren't released yet.

Our band gets awful loud at times and I was wondering if the ZLX could get as loud without losing clarity? Another motive for buying a second ELX was to be able to sell them as a pair if I wanted to at some point. The last powered speaker I owned was a model that was discontinued and when I wanted to sell it for an EV, it was a little harder to sell a single one.



If you have a ELX speaker then I would recommend picking up another one. You want a matching pair not only to make it easier to sell later, but also to retain the harmonic nuances that pertains to that cabinet through your second speaker. Getting two different model speakers is going to make it harder to get a good mix between the two.

To answer your question, the ZLX speakers do handle high volumes with ease, although I will have to say that the QSC handles the high to very high volumes better then the ZLX speakers. You can tell that the QSC has better frequency matching at high volumes, and thus there is pretty much none of the weird 'phase effect' between the Horn and the Cone. I would place the ELX in the middle, retaining a more consistent sound throughout the entire volume range. The difference between the two (ELX vs ZLX) is mainly that the ZLX has a more crisp timbre of sound.
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby PaulOnheiserJazz » 02 Mar 2014, 03:47

damasp wrote:Thanks for your comparison of the two EV cabinets PaulOnheiserJazz. Good to hear that you tested them side by side. I was wondering what else was different about the two besides having a wood case, weight and sound level. The ZLX is less expensive too. When I purchased my first EV ELX the ZLX weren't released yet.

Our band gets awful loud at times and I was wondering if the ZLX could get as loud without losing clarity? Another motive for buying a second ELX was to be able to sell them as a pair if I wanted to at some point. The last powered speaker I owned was a model that was discontinued and when I wanted to sell it for an EV, it was a little harder to sell a single one.



If you have a ELX speaker then I would recommend picking up another one. You want a matching pair not only to make it easier to sell later, but also to retain the harmonic nuances that pertains to that cabinet through your second speaker. Getting two different model speakers is going to make it harder to get a good mix between the two.

To answer your question, the ZLX speakers do handle high volumes with ease, although I will have to say that the QSC handles the high to very high volumes better then the ZLX speakers. You can tell that the QSC has better frequency matching at high volumes, and thus there is pretty much none of the weird 'phase effect' between the Horn and the Cone. I would place the ELX in the middle, retaining a more consistent sound throughout the entire volume range. The difference between the two (ELX vs ZLX) is mainly that the ZLX has a more crisp timbre of sound.
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby damasp » 03 Mar 2014, 00:28

I agree and I bought my second ELX in December. My main intention was to use them together when possible situation permits. It's also nice having the second one available for a different rehersal location.
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Re: Which Amps do you folks like here?

Postby Dugrok » 10 Jun 2014, 18:43

I was using a Samson Auro d412 until recently. It overheated during silence. Don't know if it was a dud or not.

Other than that it worked relatively well. It did lose some clarity when it was turned up really loud though.
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