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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby ajstan » 08 Apr 2018, 14:32

Count and Quai34 - thanks for the ideas. I think I will try the attenuator first as it will give me the most flexibility while maintaining simplicity. Here’s a quick recap of my setup to use the NS3 with IEMs:

——-
UPDATE : I think I’m going to replace the Behringer MA400 with a Rolls PM55P to drive my IEMs. The Rolls includes a built-in limiter and mic/line switch for the XLR input, so there’s no need for a separate attenuator - I’ll just need to flip a switch. Also includes a belt clip and has option to use a battery or an A/C adapter for power. Good suggestion from someone over at Keyboard Corner.

https://www.amazon.com/rolls-PM55P-Pers ... B00J4VHTSW
——-

NS3 88 (on Nord legs, no separate stand): Stereo Outs to Key Largo channel 1

Key Largo (on floor): Stereo Main Outs to FOH. Stereo Monitor Outs to Behringer MA400 monitor input (using a dual TS to single TRS cable). The Key Largo has independent volume controls for the Main Outs and Monitor Outs.

Behringer MA400 (mounted underneath the NS3 between E6 and B6 using Command Picture Hanging Strips): 1/4” stereo Monitor input from Key Largo. Mono XLR input from main board with a monitor signal mix from other instruments and vocals. Each input on the MA400 has an independent level control.

Plan will be to use the attenuator on the XLR input of the MA400 to counteract the 40dB gain of the XLR mic-level input when playing live. I will still hear my NS3 in crystal clear stereo, while the rest of the band will be in mono. For practice, I will remove the attenuator and connect a microphone to the XLR input to pick up the ambient sounds of the rest of the band.

I’m loving the small footprint and easy setup. Plus, I have the ability to add two more sound sources via the Key Largo. For example, when practicing at home, I have a Bluetooth adapter connected to channel 2 of the KL so I can stream music from my iPhone to play along with.

——-
Also, to answer Count’s question - yes, there is a Monitor In on the NS3, but the sound gets sent through the outputs and seems susceptible to noise. Also, I’m not a fan of the headphone jack on the NS3. To me the sound is much better when I run the Main Outs through a mixer and headphone amp.
Last edited by ajstan on 10 Apr 2018, 19:02, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The IEM Thing


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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby sdmkeys » 10 Apr 2018, 20:45

Anyone using a wireless in-ear monitoring system?

Can't decide between the Shure P300, Audio Technica M3 or Sennheiser EW 300 IEM G3 to use with my Westone - AM Pro 30 Earphones.

Looking forward to being free (of being tethered) ....

:idea:
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby cgrafx » 10 Apr 2018, 23:10

We use PSM900 series wireless. If your patient its possible to pick up used systems for a reasonable price. I've paid as little as $400 for a full set (transmitter and receiver pack), but that was an unusual circumstance. $600-800 is not unusual though.

There is a pretty big difference between the 300 series and the 900 series.
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby ajstan » 24 Apr 2018, 23:03

OK, here's an update on my IEM journey, in case it's helpful to those looking to assemble their own IEM setup.

- Still working on selecting the right ear tips for the AM Pro 30s. Definitely will be using the silicone tips, not the foam. The medium width silicone tips (black ring) that were installed at the factory are the most comfortable, but have a little leakage, although they still sound relatively good (with an emphasized mid-range) and are usable for gigs. The wider width silicone tips (orange ring) are ok for short periods of time and give the best overall sound (bass and treble come alive) and block even more external sound. Definite wow factor. I think I'll see if I can get used to wearing them, but will be prepared to switch between sets during a gig if needed. Will have to decide between the two for now and buy some replacements until I'm ready to spring for custom tips.

- Really like the Rolls PM55P as a headphone mixer. It's significantly larger than the Behringer MA400 (and more expensive - $81 vs $25), but adds a limiter, mic/line switch for the XLR input (from which I'll receive an Aux mix from the main board of the other band members), and can run off battery or AC. I have it mounted with Command Strips under my NS3 so it's easy to reach and out of the way. I also like that when mounted, the level knobs are sticking out the front (with access to the limiter on/off switch) instead of being underneath as on the MA400.

- Loving the Key Largo, even though I only use one board on stage. Put it on the floor, set the levels, and control everything after that from the PM55P without affecting FOH. Small overall footprint. I can setup comfortably most everywhere. Plus, I have room for adding more boards/modules in the future.

Finally, I've sold my QSC K8.2s, so I am all-in on IEMs moving forward. I am very satisfied for now and looking forward to giving this setup a workout starting with this Friday's gig.
Last edited by ajstan on 24 Apr 2018, 23:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby Quai34 » 05 Jun 2018, 01:07

Hi Guys,
I've followed all the replies to this awesome post started by Chuck (On top of his blog as well...) but I came to the conclusion that I cannot make the switch like you all did, with a digital mixer and everyone on IEM...
I'm going to use my Mackie Onyx 1640i and provide to our female singers (One Alto, on Soprano) some IEM, maybe a Shure 215 or some second hand that start to be poping up on the Long and Mac Quade "Used items" website...Just so you know, I have to buy everything for the band, no one wants to invest in any way so, If I want to improve the averall sound/PA/On stage Mix, I have to do it on my treat...
But at least they are all open about that and they trust me 100% for any decision sound related...
So, is there anyone who started with the singers only on IEM, meaning that we get rid of the wedge monitors for the Singers first? We use AKG C535 condenser Mic for our female singers and I thought that it will benefit first to get rid of any feedback on stage coming from them....Is that true or did you experience some feedback coming from guitar and bass Amp through the vocals Mics because of the bassist and guitarist not being on IEM yet? We play Dance/Funk and the bassit and guitarist are very "smooth" on their level...
Second question, is it not stupid to have IEM for Singers and not having them on wireless microphone, especially for dancing and staging? If so, I will have to find used AKG C535 WL1 wireless head and their respective TH4500/RT4500 handhell transmitter and received system.
So, any thought on who it went with you if you did it a several steps?
Let me know
Sincerely
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby cphollis » 05 Jun 2018, 01:50

Getting the singers on IEMs is a good goal. Eliminate feedback, cleaner sounds, etc. Wireless, wired, it's up to you. My vocalists are instrumentalists, so they don't move around much, thankfully.

As I think back to my IEM experience, getting the vocalists on IEMs was a huge win. Cleaner harmonies, etc.

So a good thing?

The second biggest thing was getting the guitarists off of their "stage" sound, which made for an awful mix most nights. Bass amp feedback turned out to be a serious problem, now solved.

Now it sounds like studio recording. Some are in, some not so much :)

Bass was easy. Drums continue to be a challenge. And, me, keyboard dude, loves me a clean mix during a gig :)

I get the deal of having to spend on behalf of other band members. It's my pleasure, so I'm totally over it.
I think I have gear issues ....
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby Quai34 » 05 Jun 2018, 05:40

Hi Chuck,
Thanks for the input. So, ok, I will start with the vocalists but they are supposed to move around, dance, going into the crowd etc....So, I will start with their IEM wired and microphone wired and then, when we will go wireless for them, I will go with IEM AND microphones....
I have an headphone output on my Eden bass Amp and there is also an headphone output on the Radial Bassbone preamp so, it will be easy to get him just the In Ear, and staying wired for him....
For my guitarist, I still like a lot the sound I make for him, it's my two Amps, Egnater 40W, my guitarist is more a Blues/Jazz guitarist so, it's even me who ask him to push a bit his volume when he has a solo but we mostly use clean/funky sounds with effects etc....in stereo....In fact, it's a guitarist set up made by a keys player to match a keys player requirement so, I think I could do it without being wireless IEM....
We have a microphone on each Amp and one Amp is with an Radial JDX48 that goes between the Amp output and the Speaker....Then I keep the sound of the Amps and we have 3 channels for him, left/Right/Centerd....
That's why I'm not sure I want to give up on all the work I did with the pedalboard and the Amps to get a nice crunchy funk sound.
For Drums, We have already discussed the solution, clear panels....It works super well, I have seen a lot of bands doing it in Alberta and tested them with my band as well in Alberta....But still another expense....
So, fine, I know my first step now, IEM for the singers....
Thanks you all again,
Sincerely
Last edited by Quai34 on 05 Jun 2018, 05:50, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby Quai34 » 05 Jun 2018, 07:28

cphollis wrote:
I get the deal of having to spend on behalf of other band members. It's my pleasure, so I'm totally over it.


Well, I Have bought/built a 15 guitar pedals pedalboard, I have 4 guitars (all around 1800$), 2 Amps, stereo set up, 2 basses, one Eden Amp and two bass cab, one mixer, 3 DI, cables, 10 mics for drums and singers etc...
So, it's my pleasure to have the sound I want and lucky enough to have musicians who appreciate the difference (compared to my other band where the bassist and guitarist always want to play with the loud/crappy distorted sound....) but with all the stuff I bring, it starts to be quite a lot....So, it will be step by step now....
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby CountFosco » 05 Jun 2018, 12:25

I do some backing vocals in one band. I have my two boards going to a submixer (Behringer RX1602), along with an aux mix from FOH, heavy on my vocals, using the headphone out for IEM (Westone UM Pro 30). I found it hard to get my vocal sound right in my ears. There's a difference between home studio, band rehearsal room and live setting. I see players in some live bands get frustrated mid gig, and pull one or both IEMs out mid song. In my last gig, the earpieces only left my ears between sets, as I had it all dialed in nicely. But if the vocalists haven't tried IEM before, it will take time to get it how they like it. I would get them along to the jam before the other players so they're not trying it cold when you start the first song. It's like snorkeling.

ADDENDUM: but on the keyboard side, it's brilliant. I enjoy a gig better when what I'm playing is the centre of attention (for me at least), and I play better. And the backing vocal thing is a huge step forward. I sang backing vocals in grunge bands in the 90s, I can kind of sing, but I had no idea what note I was singing half the time. It just used to feel right when my skull resonated just so.
Last edited by CountFosco on 05 Jun 2018, 18:34, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The IEM Thing

Postby Quai34 » 05 Jul 2018, 09:16

Hi again,
How would you rate your ability to ear what the other players are telling you when you have to share feedback between songs during a practice? I read that a proper fit is the key to a usefull and good IEM experience but if you have to remove all the time your IEM when someone is talking to you, not only could it ruin the lifetime of your IEM (Would it be?...) But also could kill the pleasure of a nice practice....
What do you think?
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