Re: The IEM Thing
Excellent post here! I'm in this road too. Agree with the importance of a comfortable mix on the in ears. Let is know how it goes your first gig!
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Leo Castro - Patch Creator
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Re: The IEM Thing
ajstan wrote:Some observations from my first two rehearsals with the Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs:
- Setup was 4 mics and keys through the PA, un-mic'd drums, and bass and guitar running through their own amps. I was the only one with IEMs. Lead singer uses a monitor wedge.
- The attenuation was great. Comfortable volume for me all night long, but I could still have conversations without removing an earpiece.
- It was shocking how much louder everything was when I took the IEMs out, but I had a much better feel for the music without the IEMs.
- Other instruments and vocals were too muffled so I set up an ambient mic to run through my headphone mixer. It helped, but wasn't optimal. A good monitor mix on stage will be important.
- Glad I tried this setup at practice first. Would have been problematic to go straight to a gig. A different experience. Need to rely upon the monitor mix to self-regulate my volume going to FOH, vs. using stage volume as a guide. Will be asking for a FOH mix in my Aux feed at the gig as a starting point.
- Much happier not having to carry amps to practice and gigs. Just have Nord roller case (NS3-88, legs, and music stand), bench, and duffel bag with cables, pedals, and mixers.
First gig with the IEMs is this Friday, so we will see how it goes.
It sounds like -- so far -- you're liking them. That's good!
As I mentioned before, my duties are now monitoring the FOH mix and adjusting along the way. Luscious stereo from the phones output.
If I can't hear my keys, well, that gets bumped up a bit in the FOH mix. Each of the other four musos have their own self-controlled aux, so it doesn't affect them. Guitar hero is nicely tamed as well. He thinks he's doing this massive, over-the-top head-searing solo. Well, not so much. It's there, just a bit attenuated.
That being said, if we ever had a competent FOH person (unlikely in our situation) I would hand FOH duties to them and share an aux monitor out with the drummer or bass player.
I have passed around my Westone AM Pro 30s to some of the other musos. It's now on their gear list. Everyone loves the clear full-range sound, the comfort and being able to hear ambient room noise.
This Saturday, we're playing an outdoor festival-like gig here in Florida. A Deadhead reunion it seems. I am the sound guy. OK, bring game?
I've decided to bring some serious FOH toys: a pair of QSC KW153 three-way towers, a pair of 2000w Fulcrum Acoustic FA12acs as toppers, my 2000w RCF sub and a few RCF TT08-as as center stage fills. I've run this rig before, it's a massive, authoritative sound for something like a parking lot. Very immersive. And outdoors is always harder. That being said, I've never had to push it over 70%.
Note? No monitors. Like, zero. Bring your IEMs, people, or your night will suck. I really don't want to deal with feedback, OK?
That being said, I'm encouraging some modest on-stage amplification from everyone. Makes it authentic for people who walk up to the stage, which is a thing. I'll be using a CPS SSv3 turned maybe halfway up? Take a few steps back, you wouldn't hear it.
Once again, the idea is to let the PA do the heavy lifting. And let's avoid feedback. No 2000w Marshall stacks on-stage, please.
I'll let you know how it goes.
-- Chuck
Last edited by cphollis on 04 Apr 2018, 05:26, edited 1 time in total.
I think I have gear issues ....
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Re: The IEM Thing
Had my first gig with the IEMs last night. It was really nice to be able to hear myself clearly at a reasonable volume. Had the drummer to my left and guitar amp to my right on a tight stage and was comfortable the whole night. Ambient port was important as the monitor feed I received was almost unusable (seemed fine during sound check but was a mess of distortion afterwards), but I was still able to power through by relying upon stage volume. Learning process. Having a couple of practices beforehand where I couldn’t hear others clearly was a big help in navigating the evening.
End result was a very fun evening with a packed venue, packed dance floor, and the manager who insisted on a hard stop time in-advance gave in to the crowd and allowed us to play an encore. Nights like this are the reason I joined a band.
Based upon my experience so far, I have no plans to ever go back to using speakers as monitors. I also don’t think that I could ever use IEMs that didn’t have an ambient port, as it would make me totally dependent on the monitor feed to hear others, not to mention that I would likely feel completely disconnected from the band and crowd. Big thumbs-up to the Westone AM Pro 30s.
End result was a very fun evening with a packed venue, packed dance floor, and the manager who insisted on a hard stop time in-advance gave in to the crowd and allowed us to play an encore. Nights like this are the reason I joined a band.
Based upon my experience so far, I have no plans to ever go back to using speakers as monitors. I also don’t think that I could ever use IEMs that didn’t have an ambient port, as it would make me totally dependent on the monitor feed to hear others, not to mention that I would likely feel completely disconnected from the band and crowd. Big thumbs-up to the Westone AM Pro 30s.
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Re: The IEM Thing
Hi aj, great to hear the gig went well and thanks for the feedback. As in that other post, I also got one of those MA400s, and I remember you saying you took your monitor mix from FOH into the XLR in. I also had some problem with distortion on that input. It took me a few goes to get the relative levels right. The XLR input is designed for mike inputs and has a 40 dB gain, whereas the monitor input has a 10 dB gain, which makes it tough to mix line level inputs.
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Re: The IEM Thing
Thanks, Count, the 40dB gain definitely explains the issue. You saved me a bunch of troubleshooting. Guess I need to rethink my headphone mixer setup.
I may try one of these since I can’t seem to find a similar mixer that would accept ax XLR line input:
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-A15LA-Adap ... B0006NMSXS
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-A15AS-Swit ... B0002J1JKY
https://www.amazon.com/2UW2103-Technolo ... B000K67U52
I’m open to other ideas as well.
I may try one of these since I can’t seem to find a similar mixer that would accept ax XLR line input:
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-A15LA-Adap ... B0006NMSXS
https://www.amazon.com/Shure-A15AS-Swit ... B0002J1JKY
https://www.amazon.com/2UW2103-Technolo ... B000K67U52
I’m open to other ideas as well.
Last edited by ajstan on 07 Apr 2018, 22:57, edited 3 times in total.
NS3-88, NS3C, Casio CT-S1, Radial Key Largo, Westone AM Pro 30 IEMs, Rolls PM55P Headphone Mixer, K&M 18880 Keyboard Stand with 18881 Second Tier, Bose S1 Pro, JBL 305p MKII Monitors, Zoom Q2n-4K, Behringer XR18 Mixer
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Re: The IEM Thing
Yeah, maybe, but it seems a shame to attenuate then amplify, bit of a workaround. I still think the MA400 is a neat tool, but (again, as per the other post), I think my ultimate solution will be to step up to a decent submixer. A couple of people suggested the Tascam LM-8ST which looks the goods, but I'm about to order the (slightly cheaper) Samson SM10. I think I can get it done with one of those. The SM10 has 2 channels with XLR input, the rest 1/4", but XLR to 1/4" adapters are also an option.
(edit: there were also some other good options from Behringer and Mackie in that other post, but I fell for 19" format)
(edit: there were also some other good options from Behringer and Mackie in that other post, but I fell for 19" format)
Last edited by CountFosco on 07 Apr 2018, 23:16, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The IEM Thing
Hi,
Il tried the Berinhger1602 before the Tascam, lot of noise and buzz, then bought the Tascam....I tried as well the Art Pro audio mixer, not bad but a big difference in output volume compared to my first Tascam so, as I wanted the same output my second mixer, I plugged the trigger again with it...
Yes, not cheap but super tough and the Specs are not lying, the sound is gorgeous...
Il tried the Berinhger1602 before the Tascam, lot of noise and buzz, then bought the Tascam....I tried as well the Art Pro audio mixer, not bad but a big difference in output volume compared to my first Tascam so, as I wanted the same output my second mixer, I plugged the trigger again with it...
Yes, not cheap but super tough and the Specs are not lying, the sound is gorgeous...
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Re: The IEM Thing
Just one other comment. AJ, I notice you're using a single keyboard. I assume the S3 has a monitor input like the E5D. Could you take your FOH monitor feed into the keyboard's monitor input, and use the keyboard's phones out for your IEM? If getting a 2 sided signal to the phones is a problem, you could go via the MA400's monitor in using one of these adapters (to avoid that 40dB gain)
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Re: The IEM Thing
I've been considering doing just that with my NE5D - using the Monitor in for monitor.
The only downer is that headphones and main outs have the same volume, so any "more me" tweaking mid gig would also raise the total volume.
If only there was separate volumes for Main out, Headphone out and Monitor in. Would be ok to have the latter hidden in menus...
The only downer is that headphones and main outs have the same volume, so any "more me" tweaking mid gig would also raise the total volume.
If only there was separate volumes for Main out, Headphone out and Monitor in. Would be ok to have the latter hidden in menus...
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Re: The IEM Thing
fieldflower wrote:I've been considering doing just that with my NE5D - using the Monitor in for monitor.
The only downer is that headphones and main outs have the same volume, so any "more me" tweaking mid gig would also raise the total volume.
If only there was separate volumes for Main out, Headphone out and Monitor in. Would be ok to have the latter hidden in menus...
Good point, but having that MA400 between the FOH and the Nord's monitor in at least adds some volume control on the signal from FOH. It could work. I even thought about taking FOH into the A1's monitor in, then taking the A1's headphone out into the E5D's monitor in, and using the phones output on the E5D as my monitor signal. Has anyone tried that? (Edit: scratch that, no monitor in on the A1)
Last edited by CountFosco on 08 Apr 2018, 12:23, edited 1 time in total.
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